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Where does the heat come from?

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Rockydog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 May 2005 at 04:35
OK, I have a question here. This discussion of fluted VS non fluted barrels has me thinking. We all know that barrels heat up rapidly. How much of this heat comes from the burning powder and how much comes from the friction of the bullet against the barrel? For example, if we could move a bullet up the barrel at that speed with compressed air how much heat would be generated? I realize that this discussion will have no particular value but not being a physicist my curiousity is piqued. RD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2005 at 06:53

Rocky;

I'm certainly not a physicist either, but in thinking about your question, I'd guess 80% or more of the heat transfered to the barrel is from the burning of the powder rather than the friction.  Consider that the pressure rise from ambient to 60,000 psi happens in a time frame measured in milliseconds over a distance of around 22", to pick some believable numbers.  I'm told that the gas exiting the muzzle is as solid as steel & hot enough to cut that steel like a hot knife through butter were it a sustained process.  Else why do throats erode?

But it is an interesting question.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waksupi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2005 at 08:58
I'd kind of guess the powder heats it more, as it seems the breech end of the barrel seems to heat faster. And I know when I shoot slow powders, the barrel heats up slower.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Skinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2005 at 15:55

Friction is a big factor. I read in Varmint Hunter that 30 percent of the powder's energy goes into overcoming bore friction. And there is an energy transfer from the bullet/rifling thing...you're increasing the rate of spin while sliding along...you can't tell me that there isn't a significant amount of heat from that.

I think that about 40 percent of powder energy actually goes to moving the bullet and the other 30 percent gets blown out the dumb end.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moose6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2005 at 01:12

I would have to say pressure and friction, but not burning poweder, simple because the fire is in the barrel for such a short amount of time, that I don't think enough of the thermal transfer could occure to cause the barrel to heat up so much.  Kind of like when you pass your finger through a flame real quick and don't get burned or even feel heat.  But very high pressure causes extreme increases in temperature.  So that justifies my pressure thought.  I too (like Dave Skinner) have read that friction heats the barrel up A LOT more than burning powder, which justifies my friction thought.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Mountaineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2005 at 03:08

Well I'm no physicist either but I know enough to get myself in trouble and I'll try my best to do just that

Pressure = Force / Area
Friction = a friction coefficient number X normal force (a.k.a. weight, mass X gravity)
Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass X velocity squared

Heat is a measure of kinetic energy.

I'd most certainly say the pressure is a larger culprit than friction when it comes to generating heat for firearms.  The heat of the combusting gasses will be determined by a high pressures and a large surface area (the internal area of the barrel).  Whereas friction will be merely determined by a friction coefficient and the mass of the bullet.  Both of which are smaller in comparison to the components of pressure. 

I ain't no physicist but I can do algebra and knowing which numbers are bigger before plugging them into the equation makes sense to me that the heat generated by pressure makes more sense.  Maybe there's some engineer in here who can talk about combustion physics but it ain't me!

Interesting number crunching though.

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