The sizzle or the steak?

The whole cartridge thing is crazy.  We have hundreds of factory cartridge when we only need about 15 (and that would do it all).

The 358 was made by Winchester to replace the 348 Win which was a rimmed cartridge made only in one rifle the Winchester model 71.  the 348 and the model 71 were commercial losers.  the rifle was an old style lever (tubular mag) that had no good way to mount a scope and wasn't tapped for any scope mount or receiver sight.  A flimsy bolt peep was available on deluxe models.  This was a time when scope bolt guns were just becoming  the popular rifle, so the rifle didn't have a chance.  The  348 only took flat nose bullets because the tubular mag.

So Brilliant Winchester designed the model 88 with a box mag and the 358 as a  348 with pointed bullets as the spitzer craze was in full swing.

So, no surprise, both the model 88 and the 358 died.

IMHO it would have had a better chance if it was first made in a short action 22 inch barrel bolt gun.

The 358 with 200 grain bullets is nothing much better than a 308 with 200 grain bullets.  If they would have made it in that 22 inch bolt with 250 grain bullets it would have been a good big game gun.

Most BG is shot well under 200 yards, so the 358 would have been a light carry medium heavy bullet hunting round.

Before I get flamed on the negative 348/mod 71 comments.  I've had one a mod 71 in 348 for over 30 years.  I like it.  But I did sell one of those shit bolt peep sights for $200.

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338/06 is an ok round...but I don't see what it does that the 338 mag or the 35 Whelen will not do just as well!  But if some one wants one and it 'floats his boat' go for it it is a well balanced round.

BEAR

Like many chamberings, the .358 takes handloading to bring out it's best. It is not overbore, so shoots it's powder charge efficiently. With the heavier bullets available,, it will kill anything in America, and much of Africa. Some consider it a short range round. Not so. With lighter bullets for antelope size critters, it will stretch out to 350 or so yards with no problem. Shooting my 277 gr. cast bullets, I have a point blank range of 225. And that is as far as I care to shoot. In a well designed rifle, the .358 has reasonable recoil, and kills well. Elmer Kieth liked it and highly recommended it, as did P.O. Ackley. So, what's not to like?

What was the basis of your being underwhelmed? Not enough noise, recoil, and blood shot meat?

Omega, not quite understanding what you mean, I enjoy all cartridges that are/were made. The only difference is, there are rifles that I don't particularly want.  Some brands leave me cold. On the other side, I like cartridges .30 cal or larger. That doesn't mean that I don't own "small bore" cartridges. Our discussion was about rifle fit. I prefer rifles that fit. I don't see anything wrong with the .358 or the .348. Having shot both, I am left with the impression that there is something better, and I already have that. I have no burning desire to own either, but, if offered one, at the right price, I would buy it. Probably not keep it for long though. I look at it like this, both are bigger than .30 cal, so, they do have SOME merit. I am mainly a turn bolt guy. As far as varmint hunting goes, I like to use .300 Win Mag. Yesterday, I bought a used, slightly shot, .30/.378. This has all the earmarks of meing my new varmint rifle. (Speed Kills)  Aside from, that, a rifle must fit me, for me to shoot it much...............Kingpin

Totally agree Rob. The cartridge comes in sexond, to putting the shot where it is needed at the moment you need to stick it there.I have a love affair with guns and calibers. I also have a love affair with the satisfaction of hitting the spot I aimed for and knowing I did my part. The .270-.30-06 debate is lost on me. I also happen to think that nay sayers about the .30-06 are out where the busses don't run. Take them and the yo-yos who argue about "cartridge efficiency" and just ignore them because they are lost in their own ignorance. Being a big bore guy like myself, even I would never go against the '06 for anything. Argueing over calibers is a lot like beating your head off a concrete floor. It feels a lot better when you quit.................................Kingpin

Spot..Granted the ballistic curve of the 358 Win is not that great but if you know what you are doing it can kill game at ranges further than any of us need to be shooting game.There are flatter shooting rifles for sure but arcing a bullet is not that difficult if you have a range finder and know your drop tables.I am more than certain that this cartridge can deliver sufficient enough downrange energy when it impacts to kill humanely,and yes I have a 300 Win Mag too but relying on another rifle to make long shots when you are in the woods with your 358 doesnt cut the mustard.Are you gonna tell that deer to wait right there in that clearing 400 yards out while you run back to the house and get your 300 wizzm???

I had all 4 in the 88 - 243, 284, 308, and .358. The 243 and .308 really impressed me and my old 08 has killed a lot of critters in its day. Pest control for the gov one spring I killed 42 bear with 43 shots in 11 days protecting bee farms. Anyway, the 243 and 308 really impress me as cartridges. The other two were out of their leagues just not having the case capacity to make the cartridge shine. Both really suffered when you stepped up to the bullets they were designed for. The .358 had two bullets available for it, 180 and 250 grain. The 180 had a terrible BC and the 308's 180 had a superior BC, both launched it at comparable speeds. The 250 was just too much bullet for the case capacity and you were really driving them hard to hit that 2300 to 2400 FPS. I did love the 88 though and I know that makes one of us.

As we talked about on another thread I usually get my best accuracy a few ponies shy of the full pull and that doesn't bother me. So if you want to push a .338 bullet at 06 velocity why not load a .338 WM down to that level? It's when we push lesser cartridges too hard that accuracy goes away so to me this only makes sense. You want the perfect replacement for the the .358? The .375 H&H has all kinds of load data for it with bullets from 220 to 270 that mimic the .358.

Anyway I didn't mean to dis anybodies favorite caliber but now you know my thought on the subject.

nice thread, fellas. lots o' sense of the common variety. 

LOL, good come back Waksupi...........................Kingpin