Rosebud

bk,

Not to pick a fight here, but please try to explain to a muddled headed old man how in blazes anyone has a right to say another man "overcharges to let people on THEIR LAND!!!!!!! Who in the world But the Lakota can judge the value of the right to tresspass on land upon which they were confined at one time???I can guarantee a more lively response from them should they be asked that to their faces. Notwithstanding the concepts of westward expansion, manifest destiny, and mans' history of forcebly taking over territory by force, both red and white, such an attitude shows the originator of your heresay opinion to be an uneducated, uniformed nincumpoop goober, a P.A.M.B., a closet communist, and most likely a product of too much fast food and union wages he probably could never earn on his own merits. He probably was not beaten often enough by his father when he uttered stupid and un thought out comments as a young man and so never learned how to act around polite folks. If you actually know this miscreant, kindly inform his highness that a large and noisy group of us would like to come take target practice in his front yard next week, and we will set the price. If I have offended a friend of yours, or a relative, you have my condolences. Perhaps this discussion should take place in person with a member of the Rosebud Tribal Council in attendance. I probably have been too calm about the thing. Sorry.

max

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bk,

 That was a good one about the democrats.

I suppose my position re access fees on the Res. is more socially based than anything else. A young person in most of rural America at least usually has transportation available to go out and scrounge up a job of some kindif he has the gumption. If you are 16 and stuck in a house trailer 30 miles outside of a nearly dead Res town and actually want something better what do you do???? As is painfully evident, I don't know. Maybe charge for hunting???

max

One big problem with "free land" hunting is we humans have lots of prejudices.  we automatically like people similiar to outselves, and dislike those that are different.  If you don't understand that then you are either very young or live on Mars (watch for the probe don't get run over).  I'm not saying it is right, but it seems to be inherent.  Like lots of things we must overcome these human weakness.

This affects 'free hunting'.  I can hunt free in my state by asking land owner/farmers.  But it I show up from the east, I'm viewed as an "out of state dude".  I have seen this even reflected on this board.  Shoot a throphy buck in a state farm from home and stop in a local bar for a drink on the way home with the buck in the back of the truck.  Good luck on the insults from the 'in-staters'.  they feel and say you shoot the buck theyand their kin deserved.

So I've learned that I like to hunt and don't like having to talk to locals who are pissed because I'm hunting in their state.  So, when I hunt in states where I've made friends, I will hunt on private 'free land'.  But I'd rather pay a reasonable amount to a guide/outfitter/rancher OR hunt public lands like N Forest/Grasslands/Fed Wilderness, becasue these don't belong to the locals...they belong to federal taxpayers like me.

BEAR 

bear - you brought up some good points from your side of the river!

when i mentioned "free land," i was referring to public land. farmers/ranchers may or may not charge you, and as you said, it is probably decided more on where you are from than anything.

max - your friend and his 3000$ whitetails are a lot of the reason a local guy can't go out to a local farm or ranch and grab a deer for its meat. around here, local people are kept off of a lot of private land because the landowner knows that someone will eventually come along with a few hundred bucks. i acknowledge that the landowner is free to do what he wants with his land and access to his land, but i sure don't like it.

max -

the answer to your question is simple!

naturally, if there were hunters and families that had been coming there for years, they would have developed good relationships with the landowners and had maintained close ties. if the land was inherited, the men who inherited it would know of this, and would allow these good, ethical hunters access. the bad ones would be weeded out, so to speak. this would allow a moderately good "harvest" (i HATE that term when used in hunting), and the game would be fairly-well managed, but not perfect.

as for the half that was only open to the very few "high rollers," the brother who instituted that policy would become known as a self-righteous prick, and when his land became overrun by deer (especially does) because he only allowed 2 or 3 big bucks to be taken each year, he would eventually have to allow more access or face bankruptcy.

out here, the main problem is OVERpopulation, not a shortage of deer. you can go out on any day at any time of the year and see many deer. true, most of them are does, and you still have to actually get off the side of the highway to find a very nice trophy buck, but at the same time, there are several good mature bucks, if you must have only a buck. anyway, the landowners who are allowing access only to the affluent few are beginning to see the results of their bad management. before long, they will be choking in deer. it goes around, and it comes around.

the experience in your neck of the woods might be different, but if to many landowners restrict access as your friend is doing, then they may see the same problems. i am no expert in game management, but this is what i have observed.

"There just isn't room for everybody anymore. "  TRUE.

Here in Pennsylvania we kill more deer than any state except Texas and that is close.  There is virtually no farmers who get paid by hunters.  The only pay areas are  dozen or so 'high fence' pens selling domestically raised deer for trophy whitetails, and these places only last a few years and go bankrupt.

Private lands here are posted so that only the ownerand his/her friends can hunt it.

But that is about to change, our regulator agency is non-scientific and totally incompentent.  Also politically correct, read this months American Hunter if you want to read about the PGC.  they now want to issue extra doe tags to farmers who will then sell them to hunters to hunt on their property.  Should kill 'free' hunting as we know it forever in this state.

In my experience when land changes hands your polite free hunting is lost.  Your family could have hunted it since D. Boone but you are out of luck.

BEAR

>>>A man should marry into wealth and then it would be better.<<<

max! you got THAT right!!

>>>they now want to issue extra doe tags to farmers who will then sell them to hunters to hunt on their property.<<<

bear - this would really be NOT GOOD! can't any of the PA hunting groups challenge the constitutionality of this "law?" it seems to me, that the PEOPLE own the game, not the farmer. placing control over the game into the farmer's hands would usurp this right from the people. i am not a lawyer, but i bet a good one could make that argument.