Well gang after pinching my pennies for some time, I've finally got a good deal on an older, used, but in near mint condition Winchester Super X2 NWTF 12 ga. 3.5 inch magnum.

I got this for about $200 cheaper than a new model.  It does require a few additions.  This older model isn't drilled and tapped for a scope like the new ones so that is the first line of business.  Why a scope you ask?  Well, after studying up on the subject of turkey guns, one fellow I read about recommends a scope because the super tight patterns that turkey guns can produce misses at close range if you're not dead on.  So, I agree and was thinking a low variable powered Leupold VXII or VXIII might be the ticket.  Maybe something in the 1.5-5 or 1-4 X range.  Once I get the scope setup ready, I've gotta get a turkey choke.  I was leaning towards the Winchester brand Super Full Turkey as its cheaper than other after-market tubes.  I've already purchased two boxes of #5 shot 3 1/2 inch magnum shells to try out - Winchester and Federal - and will probably buy a few more before I'm settled with the best load.  A good camo sling and that should do it. 

My impressions of this gun superficially are pretty good.  It points well for me.  On most shotguns, I tend to bring the sights up above the target when I throw the shotgun up to my shoulder.  However when I throw this one up, the sights are really close to being on target or perhaps just a little low.  For me, I find it easier to bring the sights up to the target than dropping them down, with a shotgun at least, but that's just me.  I tend to think you're covering the field of view if you have the sights above the target and thus make it harder to pick up on the target.  Again, that's just me.  The camo finish is durable and totally dull.  Interestingly, the stampings on the barrel were whited in.  I don't know if that was done at the factory or with white paint but regardless it was professionally done.  The fiberoptic sights are bright.  The rear is two-dot red and the front is a single dot green.  I honestly would rather have seen all three dots the same color as the lighter green is tougher to pick up on a light background.  The finish is also less slick than traditional synthetic stocks.  I suppose it is strictly because of the paint but handling the gun is sure with no slippage due to a slick surface.  The forearm and pistol grip are "checkered" which further helps.  It is hefty, but the weight combined with the semi-automatic action should tame recoil from the hard hitting 3.5 inch magnum loads.  The recoil pad is about an inch thick and should further help with recoil.  The safety is clean and sure.  The trigger seems a little stiff and that's going to be something else I've gotta have worked on.  I don't own a trigger gauge but I'd say it's somewhere around 7 lbs if I had to guess comparing it to the 3 lb pulls on my rifles.  Again, just a guess.  My biggest complaint and really only complaint at this point is the assembly and cleaning of the gun.  The barrel wasn't attached when shipped.  After fiddling around trying to figure out how to attach it, I got smart and read the directions  The bolt carrier has a long "spur" on the back of it that often falls out of place during shipping and aligns the bolt carrier on a recoil spring plunger.  To get to this, easily, you have to take the cross bolt pins out of the receiver and remove the trigger assembly and put the bolt back together.  This was a bit of a pain but once you done it for the first time it is a lot easier the second time around.  Supposedly, you can replace this spur in the recoil spring plunger without removing the receiver cross bolts and dropping the trigger group out, but I believe it would take a bit of practice.  Of course once the barrel is on, you shouldn't need to remove it out in the field unless something is plugged.  I wouldn't recommend trying it out in the field, though it is possible.  This older version came with a full, modified and improved choke tube.  I thought this was kind of strange since this is a turkey gun and the improved choke was pretty useless.  I'd rather have seen them include a Super Full Turkey choke instead.  Additionally, it is not recommended that light field loads be used in this gun.  Another reason why the improved cylinder choke shouldn't have been included!  Finally, the bolt carrier release button on the side was low profile and fairly smooth.  I think I prefer the bottom carrier release like those on the Remington 11-87 and others simply because it is bigger and easier to touch off with a gloved hand under hunting conditions.  I'm also not too fond of the bolt release being so close and forward of the port but I can live with it. 

Overall, I'm fairly happy with this rig.  Still gotta shoot it of course but initial impressions are good.  Hope I didn't bore anybody with all this blabber but hey turkey season is around the corner and I think my first dedicated turkey gun is gonna be a blast.  Perhaps a blast at both ends of the gun but a blast nonetheless 

Loos beautiful to me.  I really like the camo, kind of dark.

The only thing I think I'd add to your list is an extra wide neoprene carry sling with QD swivels.  I take the sling off when I get into the spot and but it in my possibles bag, but it helps climbing the W. Pa hills.  I figure W.Va. spring turkey hills are just as steep.

What size shot you going to use in that canon?

Good luck

The #5 still give you fair shot desity out of the 3 1/2 inch hulls.  I like the 4/6 loads out of my 12 guage.  I am a short shooter on turkey, all my shots have been under 20 yards.  I tend to set-up where they can't see me and I can't see them till they are close.

BEAR

UPDATE

Well, this gun has since been sitting at my gunsmith's shop waiting for a trigger job and getting drilled and tapped for a scope.  The trigger is done but the drill and tapping of the scope isn't and it's gonna be a pain in the butt

Sit down and fix you a cold drink this might take a while.

Well, I took it over to the 'smith and told him to drill and tap for a scope and to lighten the trigger.

Not hearing back from him in some time, I decided to give him a call after work yesterday.  He said that he has been quite unable to find scope mounts to base the hole spacing off of.  NOBODY carries them.  So, I've been scrambling to find mounts for the NEW models that are already drilled and tapped, that way I'm sure my 'smith would be able to use the mounts I'd located specifically for this gun.

Well, I looked on the internet, mail order catalogs and spoke with customer service people at Cabela's, Bass Pro, Midway, Brownell's, and I even walked into Gander Mountain.  NOBODY HAS THE MOUNTS.  Sure they had the B-Square clamp on the receiver crap jobs but that's NOT what I wanted at $60 for a receiver mount and cheap rings made of aluminum.

So I finally gave up and checked Winchester's site.  Nowhere in their shotgun description, FAQ's, or anywhere in their catalog did they mention scope mounts.  So, I finally called their toll free number and getting through I was able to order a set for $29.00 that are a one-piece base of steel.  Still gotta order the rings but that'll be easy, already got some that I think will fit.

I purposely made it a point to contact ALL the retailers I spoke with about the lack of offering this mount.  Midway was the first on the list and I gave them preference for good service and prices. 

Brownell's Gun-Tech Dept. I e-mailed and got one of those lovely "auto-response" messages which "would be answered within 72 hours.........doubtful!  So we'll see.

Got shells, got targets and hope to get the time but danged if things aren't being an obstacle every turn in the road.

O.k.  just wanted to rant.  The shotgun itself is fine but danged if the scope mounts aren't a pain to find!!!

I'll keep you guys posted on how it shoots.

Well Midway at least got in touch with me after I sent them this e-mail:

"To whom it may concern:

I have been a frequent customer of Midway USA for years and to date have ordered
over $$$X worth of merchandise from your business.  I appreciate your
prompt delivery and reasonable prices.

I did run into a problem however.

I own a Winchester Super X 2 NWTF 3 1/2 inch chambered 12 gauge semi-automatic
shotgun.  This shotgun is drilled and tapped for scope mounts.  Neither your
catalog, your website, or your toll-free purchase number was able to list these
mounts.  Yes, you do offer the B-Square Saddle Mount which mounts onto the
receiver but this doesn't employ the use of the pre-drilled and tapped holes
which are designed for using one or two-piece mounts. 


I spoke with a very courteous and helpful sales representative who agreed that
you did not offer the mount I was looking for.  Ironically, neither did your
competitors to include the websites, mail order catalogs and even toll-free
order lines of Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, Cheaper-Than-Dirt, and Brownell's.  I
even spoke with sales clerks of Gander Mountain's store in person and nobody
offered this mount.

Finally, I called Winchester after nearly a month of searching and ordered one
through their product line (1-800-322-4626 Extension 863) and found the mounts.
I told the Winchester Sales Representative of my dilemma and she replied "all
retailers can order these mounts and [she] was surprised that nobody carried
them".  I pushed for her to mention this to her marketing staff.

I promised the courteous MidwayUSA sales representative feedback from what I
found out, thus the reason for my e-mailing you.

Please take it under advisement that if you were to list one or two-piece mounts
for the Winchester Super X 2 NWTF 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun
that MIDWAY USA WOULD BE THE ONLY RETAILER TO OFFER MOUNTS FOR THIS SHOTGUN OF
ALL THE MAJOR RETAILERS I'VE CONTACTED (Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, Gander
Mountain, Cheaper-Than-Dirt and Brownell's).  You can research this yourself or
simply take my word.  But after 4 weeks of doing my own research I would hope
that you wouldn't want to "re-invent the wheel" and simply trust me on this one.

Consider this a simple marketing tip guaranteed to bring you more customers and
perhaps thousands of dollars in sales for marketing a product NOBODY ELSE DOES! 

I don't charge a commission :)  I just want to see products I want carried by a
business that has offered great prices, prompt shipping and courteous service!"

They replied with this e-mail:

"Thank you for your email.  Your feedback is extremely important to us; it fuels
our commitment for continuous improvement and customer satisfaction. We will
review the information you have provided, and consider it when making future
business decisions.

If you have any further questions or comments, feel free to contact us at
1-800-243-3220 Monday through Friday 8 am - 8 pm and Saturday and Sunday 9 am -
5:30 pm (CST) or email http://by14fd.bay14.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001&a=42922d00a757dca9792094f0134a2948&mailto=1&to=customerservice@midwayusa.com&msg=MSG1081447037.69&start=483789&len=4697&src=&type=x - customerservice@midwayusa.com .

Once again, thank you for choosing MidwayUSA, we appreciate the opportunity to
serve you!


Sincerely,
Dave K.
MidwayUSA
Customer Service"

So far, Midway has the best customer service in returning my information requsts!  Still no word from Brownell's.

Mountaineer,

I'm surprised that you didn't just call some of the mount manufacturers, Weaver, Leupold, Burris, etc.  I'd bet they have them in stock.  Most shotguns just use a flat base one piece mount.  I stock the Weaver al mounts for the Mossberg pump, and it fits 95% of the shotguns I drill and tap.  I'd think your smith could have drilled it to those holes????

Sounds like this easy project is getting close to the turkey season?

BEAR

BEAR,

You couldn't have said it any better.

This project is indeed pushing the deadline!!!

I'm rather frustrated to say the least.  Turkeys aren't gobbling much but I've seen them in full strut several times.  The turkeys are ready and I'm not .  If push comes to shove, I'll just break out my old 11-87 12 gauge and use it if need be.

I did hear from Brownells Gun Tech Dept., finally.  They were a little slower than Midway but it didn't matter.  They simply said to call Browning/Winchester directly as they offered the only mounts available to use in the pre-drilled and tapped mounts.

Why my 'smith didn't think to call them himself is beyond me.  He's busy I know with my 3 guns plus countless others but dang if that doesn't seem intuitive to me.  I might try shopping for a new smith while I'm at it.  He's good, has fair pricing but is slow.  That Gander Mountain Shop in Washington, PA might be my next choice but they're pricey as all get out! 

We'll see what transpires.

I'd never use a Gander Mountain 'smith, for anything complicated.  Most are just thru a gunsmith program and have little practical experience.  I talked to one about his lathe one day.  It was apparent that he didn't know sh*t.  After a while I asked if he would rebarrel a lever rifle.  He admitted that the 'company' would only let him use the drill press, so he was limited to mounting pre-drilled scopes, and an ocasional drill and tap.  I looked at all the nice machine tools and thought of it as a loss.  He said the tools were for window dressing, but they would not chamber anything.

There may be other Gander Mountain shops that have better 'smiths.  But I was not impressed with the quality control of the parent GM or at that oneplace.  So I'd not trust any of the GM shops.

If you are coming north, only a few miles further  (about 30) on I-79 at exit 73, west on route 910, you could go to Economy Gunsmithing.  They are good, and I use them.  Call first 724 266-0232  they are open 6 days a week and on some nights are open till 8pm.  They are target and PD shooters.  I would also consider using Kinpin who is on this board, but I feel a desire to support the local the two guys at Economy as they are good and local.  By the way they are not a cheap place, the Economy is the old name of the township they are located in.  They are reasonable though.

BEAR

call first for

Thanks BEAR!

Definitely a consideration. 

I too would like to have a local smith do my work.  Not only more convenient for me but helps out the local economy too!  The PA line is about an hour for me so the closer the better but if it's going to be a big project, then I don't suppose it matters that much and I'd go the distance for a professional job.  Of course I could always ship it but that might be as costly as travel? 

Who knows, I'll keep shopping around for local 'smiths but definitely keep Economy in mind.

Thanks for the tip!

 Hey Mountain

   The X-2's are awesome your gonna love the thing.I like pumps myself never could get the hang of just pulling the trigger but as far as auto's go that would be the one for me. I have contacted Winchester a bunch of times trying to find out why they won't offer the 1300 in a 3 1/2" never a response. Bummer. Guess they don't want to take away sales from the Browning's. But I'll tell ya the Browning Gold is in no way the same as the X-2,lots of Golds sitting on the used racks around here.

UPDATE

Well, it finally all came together for me.  I got the mounts, the scope a Leupold VXII 1-4X and sling for the thing.  My smith had drilled and tapped it using the base as a pattern and I put it in Leupold Rings.  He also tuned the trigger pull down to 4 lbs. since this is a "precision shotgun" if there is such a thing.  I then took it out and patterned it.  Seems like it liked the Winchester Supreme 3 1/2 inch #5's the best.  I'll post a pattern sometime when I bring my logbook back.  I was beginning to sweat it and I hate doing last minute stuff but all worked out well and guess what?  I killed a turkey with it to boot!!!  I'll post all the details on the birds forum.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help folks, it's been a journey!