sighting in for tree rats
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Topic: sighting in for tree rats
Posted By: BEAR
Subject: sighting in for tree rats
Date Posted: 12 December 2016 at 05:23
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The old timers must have had a cool simple way to
sighting-in for squirrel hunting. these would be high angle shoots. Sure I could sight in for 20 yards and then remember that shooting up hill the rifle shoots flatter, and hold higher. Short of asking CB to climb a 40 foot oak and hold a target out, is there a easy way to do this? |
Replies:
Posted By: CB900F
Date Posted: 12 December 2016 at 12:18
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BEAR;
Use the higher speed HP ammo, such as the Winchester PowerPoints that work so well for me. Sight in a 50 yards I'd think. That's going to be pretty close to your longest shot in thick woods, no? I don't see mid-range rise being much more than an inch at most though I could be wrong. But at 50 & under with a muzzle velocity of 1250 fps or so, it's hard to imagine that you wouldn't be just fine. There's Browning stuff available, advertised 1435 fps with a 40 grain HP. Aguila also offers some high speed hunting ammo too, though I've never had any. The Winchester 1435/40 HP is supposed to be exactly the same stuff as the Browning, just headstamped differently. I think testing one would be good data for t'other in any case. Avoid the super-speed ammo though, it has a longer case, the CCI Stingers being an example. Nobody reports good accuracy with the stuff in the CZ chamber. Most important is just getting ammo the gun wants to shoot. One-hole at 50, or close to it, should be possible, hopefully with some high-speed fodder. I went to an on-line ballistics calculator & plugged in some guestimate info for B/C & velocity. I got the following: 10 yards -.07". 20 yards -.02". 30 yards .10". 40 yards .20". 50 yards 0.0. 60 yards -.50" If that's anywhere close to what you wind up using you should be good to go. Guestimate info based on the PowerPoints. 900F ------------- Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!! |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 12 December 2016 at 12:33
Well, before you published those numbers, I was going to suggest that the error introduced by the angle of inclination would be negligible at the distances one normally shoots squirrels. If you're shooting tree rats smaller than .07" you should let them go and take out their parents instead.  ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 12 December 2016 at 12:37
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Good thoughts.
this CZ shoots lights out with---REMINGTON Golden Bullets, sub MOA. These are hollow points. I usually take head shots only. CZ rule. |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 12 December 2016 at 13:43
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I've had a lot of success just using an RWS 22 cal air rifle. It is helpful to have a good "tree rat attractant" installed in a tree.
When I went to the local Fleet Farm I asked for a "squirrel feeder." The guy pointed me to this quaint little plastic model of a cottage which one would then presumably load with squirrel food so the little darlings could sit on the porch stuffing their cheeks. Knowing this device would not likely survive the first encounter with the enemy, I felt it necessary to clarify my request: "Uhhh, what I need is a squirrel feeder that can take a round." He smiled knowingly and showed me this steel device that you nail to the tree. The device is fitted with a couple of threaded spikes onto which you screw a corn cob. Perfect. The squirrels love it, and I find it somehow gratifying to know that their last thought, to the extent that tree rats do much thinking, will be tranquil and free of strife, basking in the sun and munching on corn kernels ... just before the lights go out. ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: jsgbearpaws1
Date Posted: 13 December 2016 at 15:39
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That extra .20 of an inch is the difference of a
lobotomy and cleaning it's teeth. May have to ask it to sit still so an accurate ranging can be had! ------------- ...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt! |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 13 December 2016 at 15:42
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No autoloading rifles allowed. My old squirrel rifle is
a pump Remington 22 lr. Starting Dec 26 I'll be using the CZ 452FS in 22 lr. |
Posted By: deaddog
Date Posted: 14 December 2016 at 09:13
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I thought PA passed a law allowing semiauto' for hunting?
My range finder doesn't have slant range correction capability. I just range the base of the tree since gravity is only acting for the most part on the horizontal portion of the bullets flight path. DD ------------- Endeavor to persevere. |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 14 December 2016 at 09:38
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Are you suggesting that if you shoot straight up that gravity won't act on the bullet because there is no horizontal component to the flight path, and therefore the bullet will fly off into space? ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 14 December 2016 at 11:09
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PA just passed the buck from legislature to f\Game
Commision. dah! yep, shooting straight up the gravity effect is zero deviation from a straight line. No drop in your scope! |
Posted By: RobertMT
Date Posted: 14 December 2016 at 13:06
I ain't no astronut, but I doubt 22rf reaches or maintains escape velocity, long enough. I wonder what velocity and BC, it would take? ------------- Want to stop Drunk Drivers, from Killing Sober Drivers? Ban Sober Drivers from Driving. That's how Gun Control Works. NRA Benefactor Life, GOA Patriot, SAF |
CascadeFlyer wrote:Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 14 December 2016 at 13:46
I don't know about that. If gravity weren't pulling on it, escape velocity wouldn't be very fast.  ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 00:32
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Gravity DOES pull on it. But it is pulling it straight
down, vertical. So the bullet actually slows down faster. BUT the bullet path is a straight line; no ballistic trajectory, no parabolic arc. |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 00:52
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"Gravity DOES pull on it."
Well of course it does, Bear. That was the point of my tongue-in-cheek post.  ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 01:28
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Sorry Cascade. It was your reference to 'escape
velocity' that threw me. I missed seeing your smiley face. so for Robert , the Escape velocity is the speed needed to overcome gravity and get away from earth, 25,000 MPH (36,000fps). this is many time faster than a rifle bullet. So even with a perfect BC (no drag) a 4000 fps bullet fired upward doesn't make it out into space. Years ago I always read Ed Zurn in F&S. He had humorous story during the spacewalk era. He feared that when the astronauts got to the moon, they would find his BB that he fired as kid with his Red Ryder BBgun to shoot out the moon. Zurn was funny...I liked his 'crows can't count' article. |
Posted By: jsgbearpaws1
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 06:37
Close.. The bullet retains a stable flight, but does arc to the west. The world does continue turning. *sigh....someones going for a level I just know it..... ------------- ...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt! |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 11:31
| depend upon if youhave righthand or left hand twist! |
Posted By: jsgbearpaws1
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 14:43
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.....first man made object presumably launched into space? AKA Karman line threshold. 100km above sea level ------------- ...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt! |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 15:54
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Horizontal wind / air resistance notwithstanding, the path of the bullet fired vertically is actually a straight line. However, if you're standing on earth looking up at it, it appears to arc west only because you are travelling east at about 1000 knots x cos(lat).
------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 22:54
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If you are in Montana or Wyoming and look straight up,
while one would think, as Cascade said, that it would 'appear' to arc west. But most wins there are strong 40+, and from the west. So unless you duck fast it will come down and hit you in the eye. 
|
Posted By: CB900F
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 04:04
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Fella's;
I thank you for the semi-cogent discussion! I have made it a life's work to defy gravity, and am therefore appreciative of the direction this thread has taken. Mostly I defy gravity with motorcycles, but as the possibility has been pointed out, none of the firearms I have discharged at the moon, have had the bullets return to earth by impacting my head. My wife is of the considered opinion that indeed it may have happened, but due to the height and severity of slope of the cranial dunce cap, I simply haven't noticed. As I have no odd parts in the hairline, I disagree. 900F ------------- Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!! |
Posted By: deaddog
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 04:17
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What about trying to take off an airplane from a treadmill or stepping
out of a falling elevator at the last second to save yourself? ------------- Endeavor to persevere. |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 04:39
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Well, now that you mentioned it. Have you ever been to
Wright-Patterson AFB field in Dayton Ohio.? During WW-2 the military "scientist" built a large ramp at the end of the runway. Seems they thought it would give the plans more angle of attack and shorter take offs. they figure each aircraft carrier should have a 'exit ramp up' at the front of the flight deck. Can't figure why they abandoned that one????? |
Posted By: RaySendero
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 05:20
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LOL You guys have covered most everything.
That could possibly confuse anyone except maybe the speed of light and the rotation of the earth! Squirrel hunting is just not that hard. I choose my silhouette rifle because I know this rifle like an old glove. Plus, its accurate and its a semi-auto. Thus, I don't have to make hardly any body movement for a shot on another squirrel.
No different sight-in necessary for hunting with it - Zero at 25 yds. -1.0" at 10 yds, on at 25, +0.5" high at 40, dead on again at 50, -1.0" at 60, -5.5" at 100. 3.5 feet down at 200. Bottom of scope bell where vertical cross hair touches at 400. Also, keep up (or down) shot angles simple: Ignore the +/- vertical height. Judge shot from ONLY the horizontal distance. So... for extreme up angles with horizontal distance less than 10 yd the POI will be low by an inch or so. PS: Do remember the speed of light and rotation of earth. So when you miss, The time it takes for the light to get from the target to your eye means that the target moved before you pulled the trigger. Best excuse for a miss I know! ------------- Ray |
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 05:32
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Good thoughts.
Now how do "dark Matter" and Black holes figure into it? 
But black holes do figure into it. I have 8 laser holes in my retina. Things just disappear into them. Had a large racoon walk into one black hole while I was at full draw with my bow. |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 09:19
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" they figure each aircraft carrier should have a
'exit ramp up' at the front of the flight deck. Can't figure why they abandoned that one?????" So, what exactly makes you think a) it didn't work; and b) they abandoned the idea. Actually a pretty common design feature on smaller assault carriers.  ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: CB900F
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 09:56
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Fella's;
Yup, the Brits are the first to put it into use I understand. They found that they could launch the early generations of the Harrier with a much greater on board payload & use far less fuel doing so via the ramp rather than using the VTOL capabilities of the aircraft. 900F ------------- Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!! |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 09:57
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Yup. CB done his homework. ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 13:01
And if you like that one, here's a current, front line Chinese navy aircraft carrier.
 ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |
Posted By: deaddog
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 15:06
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They photo shopped the tugs out of that Russian carrier picture.
DD ------------- Endeavor to persevere. |
Posted By: CascadeFlyer
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 15:34
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They did a really nice job Photoshopping in the Chinese flag and getting rid of the Russian one. ------------- The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so that we can keep all the others. |