i'd have to give my sentimental favorite to the .30/06. i realize that the true parent of the /06 is the x57 (if memoriy serves), but the .270, .25/06 etc. aren't famous for coming from the 8x57.

2nd place, for me, goes to the venerable .308~

of corse its the 06.

   Lets see. 25,06 .270 .280 30,06 338,06 35 Whelen. the only round I don't own in that bunch is the .338 06,(my 280 is an AI). You can hunt any non dangerous game on earth with complete confidence with those rounds ,and many of the meaner critters too

   As I get older I am less of a magnum guy, mostly beacuse I realize how few shots are taken beyond 300 yds, and for most game any of the above rounds will do fie out to 300.   ...tj3006

Fella's;

Any of the .473" case head cartridges are descendants of the parent 8X57 Mauser.  The .30-06 is one of them.  That's not to say that, as has been pointed out above, the venerable .30-06 doesn't have a lot of other cartridges based off it, but the leader of the pack is most assuredly the 8X57.

If you want more, go to the bench & hit the Cartridge Of The Month thread.

900F

 My beloved 30-06, hands down.

CB900F wrote: Fella's; Any of the .473" case head cartridges are descendants of the parent 8X57 Mauser.  The .30-06 is one of them.  That's not to say that, as has been pointed out above, the venerable .30-06 doesn't have a lot of other cartridges based off it, but the leader of the pack is most assuredly the 8X57. If you want more, go to the bench & hit the Cartridge Of The Month thread. 900F

Right on, neighbor...........Any .473 case from 51mm to 63mm owe everything to the ol' 8x57 Mauser.  She has spawned some mighty good offspring!

Ol' John

Sorry guys but I must dissagree.

   certainly the rimless .473 case head is a mauser design and many cartridges share it and I guese in a sence that makes the 8X57 the parrent case, but if the 30,06 case cannot be made from a mauser case.I think for the purpose of this discussion at least ,they are not in the same family.

    I found out the hard way a while back, as you may remember I bought a FN mauser mareked .257 Roberts and when I fired it I discoverd you can't make a .257 Roberts streach to fit a .25,06 chamber.

   if the 30,06 is the direct decendant of the 8X57 should the same be said for the 45ACP ? after all it is the the same .473 case head.

   ...tj3006

I'll have to go for the .308. Maybe not the biggest family, but one that covers most North American bases. .243, .308, .358 Win, pretty much will do, what needs doing.

I did fire form some cases for my .458 Win Mag today, from some .338 Win Mag cases I've had laying around. Had to anneal the necks, so pulled down the loaded rounds. About 50 gr. 4064, as the original cartridges had 67 gr in them. This gave me enough powder to split up between tear down rounds, and fired cases. Added some Cream of Wheat, and seated a bullet on top. Only split three case necks, out of a couple dozen. 

TJ;

The 8X57 was adopted in 1888, the caliber .30 U.S. service cartridge of 1903 came some 15 years later.  The .30-06, a development of the 1903 was, of course, three years later.  All share the .473" cartridge head, as does the 7X57 Mauser. 

The fact that the .45ACP also shares the same case head is inconsequential to the discussion of rifle cartridges IMHO, but I can come up with a couple of possibilities as to why that's so.

Considering that the .45ACP was developed in 1905, it's not at all out of the question to presume that military arsenals wanted a common case head diameter to simplify their production requirements.  Or, JMB could have taken an easy way out & just started with what was on hand as it were, since it was obviously gonna be damn close anyway.

900F

Sorry guys but I must dissagree.

   certainly the rimless .473 case head is a mauser design and many cartridges share it and I guese in a sence that makes the 8X57 the parrent case, but if the 30,06 case cannot be made from a mauser case.I think for the purpose of this discussion at least ,they are not in the same family.

You can't make a .44 Magnum case from the .44 Russian or .44 Special, either, but they certainly are its parent cases. Ditto for the .357 Magnum and the various .38 Colt cases.

My fav's an easy one     ...     .375 H&H.

As far as the old mauser case being the parent case to all things .473 rimmed, I agree with TG.  Not as I define a parent case.  By using common means available to the handloader (trimming, fireforming), if you can't make a new case from an older, it simply is not the parent.  The '06 is just to long for the mauser case to be useable.  I guess here's where the waters get muddy.  The .308 can be made from the mauser case (trim, size, false shoulder, fireform, yada, yada, yada) but since it's generally recognized that a shortened .30-06 case was the inspiration behind the initial short-action military round, in my eyes, that would still make it the "official" parent case to the entire family of short action, .473 rimmed cartridges.  I will grant that the mauser case may have inspired retaining the a .473 rim diameter with a lengthened body, but this in no way constitutes parent case status.  Again, as I define a parent case.  Later fellas.  >>  klallen

   My 1903 springfield .257 roberts is a low number, made in 1905.Most likly was origionaly a 30,03. I am well aware of the 30,03, and such. and that in a historical sence the rimless mauser design spawned the development of the 30,03 case.

    But it seems to me this thread is about witch parrent case spawned the best offspring and it was only logical that the 03 cae would be made with the same rim as the mauser case beacuse it was much easier to produce brass with equipment alredy set up for it.

   But as far as being in the same family of rounds to me at least, for this dissusuion, Off spring would mean directly made from a parrent case...tj3006

You can use any criteria you want to determine a "parent" case, including the ability to transform it into another case without the benefit of a brass foundry and stamping machine. Historicly speaking, though, in the US there has almost always been a progression from shorter to longer cases, which could NOT be made from the parent case, but obviously descended from the shorter case. You have a tough time making the arguement that the .22 rimfire (which wasn't called the .22 Short until longer cartridges were introduced!) did not spawn, and was not the parent of, the .22 Long, the .22 Long rifle, and the various .22 hyper-velocity cartridges.

Using the criteria of being able to produce  the "developed" cartridge from the parent is the same as stating the .22 Short was not, in fact, the "parent" cartridge of the later developments. because you cannot produce .22 Long Rifle or .22 Longs cases from the short case.

If you want to consider big bores, the .45/70 spawned the .45/90, the .50/70 the .50/90, and so forth.

Maybe it isn't your criteria, but that seems to be the prevailing notion among firearms historians.

I didn't think the issue of parent cases could be so confusing. 

The .458 case is my favorite.

Let's see you can neck it down to .416 or .338 or .300 or .264. Man, I tell ya the only thing you couldn't kill if you owned this battery is if it flew or it was extinct!

Russ.

Well from hunter shooter use, the 308 is clearly the best.

The 308, 243, 260, 7-08, 358 and a zillion wildcats.  All some of the most accurate rounds made.  And remember the '06 has been around a lot longer, so it should have breed longer.   And for 30 years or more,  the '06 was available in lots of low cost (under $20) bolt action military rifles.

So if you look at quality of the offspring the 308 wins hands down.

BEAR

    Hold on a minit bear, you may prefer the short action rounds and thats fine, but I can't see where they are better. Whats better for a hunter about the .308 over the 30,06. Or the 7mm08 over the 280. Or especially the .358 over the 35 Whelen.

   The shorter rounds kick less, and it might be said a little more acurate as a whole, But the 06 length rounds are plenty acurate for any kind of hunting,

   Short action rounds are great, but not better just different...tj3006

this is my opinion onle, but i've often thought of the short actions, such as the .308, to be best for those who shoot more than hunt; and the long actions, such as the .30/06, for those who hunt more than shoot.

no real reason for this, just a random thought i've had over the years that keeps popping up.

I'm not kicking the '06 or its best offspring the 280, 270, and the 35.

But I think the 308 cases are just more accurate, and they are shorter action.  so the weight/length thing favors the choice of hunters.  I've always thought an extra inch of barrel was more valuable to the hunter than an extra unused action. 

I believe that the ammo sales support the greater sales of the 308 based shells.  So my comment was based upon the most presently successful cartridges.  Unfortunately all the '06 based cases are old shells so the factory ammo is held to lower pressure loads and the full potential of all that extra volume is not realized.  so there is little usable difference between the 308 and the '06 factory loads.

BEAR

The .303 British case is also a legend.

After WW2 the .303 was necked up and down to .35, 6mm, .270, .25, various .22's, .243 etc.. The .303/25 was actually made a legit wildcat in Oz.

The reason these rounds are legends is because they really saved everyone's bacon in the days after the war coz there was nothing else so these rounds pretty much did it all from Buffalo to rabbits.

The .303 and it's offspring kick arse.

Russ.

Dave,

If you like the thought of a 308x57, you might consider the 300 Savage.  It is a 7x57 slightly shortened and opened up to 30 cal.  It is  a very good deer rifle, but totally overlooked by hunters and shooters in their race to higher velocity magnumitis.

BEAR