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herter’s model J9/mauser question |
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TasunkaWitko 
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aka The Gipper Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Chinook Montana Status: Offline Points: 14753 |
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 Topic: herter’s model J9/mauser questionPosted: 25 April 2005 at 04:16 |
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this
question is from a guy on another board named dakotazeb. i am afraid
that i wasn't able to think of any solutions, so i am posing this
problem to you guys in the hopes that we can come up with a
solution!
 ---------------------------------------------------------- --- I own a Herter's J9 in .308 and am having a problem with the rifle chambering a round. When the bolt closes and the cartridge pops up from the magazine the extractor grabs the cartridge rim but does not center it on the bolt face. Thus the cartridge is trying to enter the chamber at an angle and the shoulder is hanging up on the mouth of the chamber. If you slam the bolt firmly it will chamber the round. I have taken it to a gunsmith and he thinks it is in the extractor and is attempting to fix it for me. DakotaZeb Aberdeen, SD |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 04:51 |
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It depends upon which side of the shoulder is binding? If it is the inboard side (away from the bolt handle) it is probably not the spring steel extractor, but the bolt face piece that has worn. If it is hitting on the outboard side it could very well be a worn extractor. Since most CRF rifles are NOT made to single load, and most shooters single load most often; the extractor needs to jump over the rim when single loading. On Mausers you can squeeze the extractor spring and help it jump; but few shooters know how to do this. so Id suspect the extractor will fix the problem. Another reason for push feed superiority. BEAR |
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Bohica
.22 LongRifle
Joined: 18 May 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 04:54 |
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Dear Gipper, That would be my guess too. That or perhaps grit, dirt etc under the extractor where it engages the case rim. Check the front of the bolt for a burr or grime too. Unless someone messed with the extractor it should be ok.
Aloha, Mark |
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When fear of death is no longer a concern----the rules of war change.
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TasunkaWitko
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aka The Gipper Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Chinook Montana Status: Offline Points: 14753 |
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 05:27 |
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thanks, bear, and welcome back, mark! always good to see you and learn from your experience. hope to see more of you here!
i will pass along your comments to this guy in the hopes that he can get this fine rifle working well for him. as you both know, i am rather fond of the j9 in .308 myself! thanks again~~ |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 05:57 |
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I seem to remember those J9 Herters were Mark-X actions? BEAR |
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 09:40 |
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bear - you are half-right. the herters J9 AND the mark X actions (as
well as the new charles daly mauser actions) are all ZASTAVA actions
from yugoslavia. the herters and probably the mark Xs were surplus from
WW2 when yugoslavia was belting out mauser actions for the german army,
but i would imagine that the new charles dalys are "modern" versions of
these same actions.
i believe that zastava as well as CZ were both together during the cold war, putting out the BRNO rifles, but i could be wrong about this little tidbit. update on dakotazeb's situation: ---------------------------------------------------------- --------- Hey Ron, Thanks for the information. I took my J9 to a local gunsmith and he worked on the extractor and has it working much better. Still doesn't feed them like my Winchester Mod. 70 Classic does but I am assuming it probably pretty much back to normal for a J9. One other question, when I chamber a round it appears that this J9 has an extremely tight chamber. It takes some effort to close the bolt. The gunsmith also commented on this. By the way, the gunsmith thought that my rifle may never have been fired. He said there was still some cosmoline in the bolt. I haven't had a chance to fire it yet. Put a Leupold 6 power on it with Leupold mounts and rings. Looks really nice. Have you found these rifles to be quite accurate and capable of some nice groups? I bought some Hornady Light Mags in 150 gr. SST to try in it. ---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- my reply is below. if anyone else would like to chime in, please feel free: hey george, good to hear that your j9 is working
better. a couple of the BSBs replied to the message that i posted and suggested
similar solutions. if it is an unfired rifle, you've definitely got a nice one!
you probably already know this, but the herter's j9 is identical (except maybe
for the stock) to the interarms mark X and the new charles daly mausers. all are
built by zastava in the former yugoslavia (not sure what it is called now;
bosnia/herzogovina, slovenia, macedonia, serbia....maybe it is still in
yugoslavia proper?).
regarding your questions, i haven't noticed that mine
had any tighter chamber than my other rifles, but i am a relative novice about
these kinds of things. as far as i can recall, mine has fed well except for the
runners feeling a bit "loose" out towards the back end of throwing the bolt
(when it is farthest out). i remember seeing in an old herter's catalog that i
got that the "monorail" system of the j9 mauser was 100% reliable, and as far as
my experiences go, that has been the case.
accuracy: my j9 is a very consistent [consistent being not quite the same as GREAT] shooter in that it
throws pretty much everything into a triangle that is about an
inch-to-an-inch-and-a-half big. this includes factory loads and my own loads
which i have created using lee's classic loader. i know that it is considered
rather rudimentary, but i love that little lee loader. i also have tried some
military surplus ammo (olin, part of winchester, i think?) and it has done well
with that, too. the best group i ever had was 6/10 of an inch from a load that a
buddy fixed up for me, just as an experiment. i know that it used hornady
180-grain PSP bullets, but unfortunately he did not write down the load. i tend
to load my loads rather cool and have not tried any hot loads. i have used
150-grain hornady SSTs on paper, where i have seen pretty much the same
accuracy, a little triangle about an inch or inch-and-a-half across. as far as performance on game,
i have seen the best results from 165-grain sierra gamekings (factory "premium"
load from federal), but to me, the 165 was a little bigger than it needed to be.
in general, i believe that just about any deer and especially antelope should be
good with a 150-grain. one other thing i really like about the j9 for reloading
is that with the mid-sized magazine, originally intended for german 8x57, you
can seat the bullet out as far as you want. when loading, i usually seat as far
out as the magazine will let me. i have never done any measuring, but i would
imagine that the throat is rather deep, and the farther out the bullet is, the
better. this could be why the 180-grainers worked so well. although i prefer the
THOUGHT of having a slightly heavier bullet when using the plastic-tipped pills
(personal opinion only, not really from any experience), my guess is that your
150-grain SST lightmag load from hornady should work very well on just about any
game in south dakota. if you head over to the black hills for black bear or elk,
step it up to 180-grain PSPs or some 165-grain partitions and check the zero of
your rifle because it will shift. when i lived in spearfish, i saw some bighorn
sheep and also mountain goats in spearfish canyon, but i do not know if they are
legal to hunt. in their case, i would also use the heavier bullet or a partition
"just to make sure."
if you do a search of the archives at my website, i
wrote an pretty long post about my experiences hunting with the .308. this was
written in 2001 or 2002, and i was quite a bit younger, so there is also an
example or two of what NOT to do! anyway, i really think that the .308 can do
just about everything unless a guy is headed to africa or alaska, and even then,
with the right bullet, i believe an experienced hunter would not be under
gunned.
keep me informed, and if you get the chance, email or
post a picture of your j-9. i've got a couple pictures of mine posted on my
website, one before the stock was refinished, one after the stock was
refinished, and one with a digital camera in some funky light which makes a
weird color, but REALLY brings out the grain of the wood. if you are interested
ins seeing them, but can't find them, i'll dig around and see if i can post
links for you.
take care -
ron
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 09:49 |
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WOW, a NIB J-9. I think that Herter quit importing them in about 1968!!!!! BEAR |
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TasunkaWitko
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aka The Gipper Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Chinook Montana Status: Offline Points: 14753 |
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 09:53 |
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yep!
one thing about herter's is that they have never really had any collectors or re-sale value, but those who have them, love 'em. i think that that the quality is fine, but more important is all of the outdoors nostalgia that herter's represents. let's face it: all of us enjoy seeing those old kodakhrome pictures of mountain meadows or other outdoors scenes, and enjoy reading hutning accounts from years gone by, and herters is ALL about that! |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 10:31 |
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rob found the link to the targets he had scanned of the load
development that he did for my herters. i have the link right here but
will also upload the photos so that i have them on the BSB server.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=11816 06 i thought i had them on a CD somewhere, but i can't find it. either got lost in the move from lewistown or still in a box. once again, pix are better than memory! the #2 pic with the 150-grain loads that i built with my lee loader are exactly as i remember, but the others don't seem to follow the triangle that i described~~also, assuming that the squares are each an inch, it looks like some groups were a little bigger than 1 1/2 inches and some were better than an inch. i guess the law of averages holds fairly well~~  |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 10:45 |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 10:53 |
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i also did some digging and found the pix of my rifle. these ones are taken before the stock refinishing:
  here is the same rifle after the red finish was stripped and it was refinished with no staining.    here is a picture of the same rifle taken a little bit later. the finish is the same, but the lighting/color of the camera was weird. the thing i do like about this picture, however, is that it really shows the figure.  definitely not the fanciest rifle or stock out there, or the most accurate; but this one will always be "my baby" and my personal favorite. |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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Dakotazeb
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Joined: 25 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 13:23 |
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Hey Guys, I'm the fellow that Ron has posted about with the Herters J9 in .308 Win. Thought I'd post a couple of pictures for you. These were taken before I added a Leupold 6 power scope with Leupold rings and bases. Glad to be aboard.
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 13:39 |
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Very nice rifle. Looks like an FN Supreme copy. Back in 1962 my buddy bought a barrel action (Herter's J-9) in 243 with a heavy barrel. Shot great. Contrary to what Ron said the j-9 was not a military or surplus action. It was a European (check) action. I never trusted Herter's much so there could have been a lot of cost changes along the way. I think they were all long actions and would take the 30-06 case length cases. I have the catalog if you are interested in how they described the gun way back then. BEAR |
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 13:49 |
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bear -
i am pretty sure that most of the herter's j9 actions were built off of surplus actions that were leftover from production of german mausers in ww2. the original serial numbers could confirm this, but i have never done any actual checking. according to an article that i used to have, however, these were taken out of storage and then sent to a gunsmith in england who trued-up the actions, fitted barrels and then dropped them into stocks. i'll see if i can find the article because it is rather interesting reading. as for the FN comparisons, you might be confusing the J9 with the herter's U9, which was a copy of the FN action and built entirely in england. |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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CB900F
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 14:19 |
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Dakotazeb; Since Norm Ristau has long since passed on to the great range in the sky, I don't know who's a smith in Aberdeen worth going to. They still breedin' skeeters on the Mog big enough to carry off small dogs & children? Where's the range in Aberdeen these days? 900F |
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Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Rob1
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 14:26 |
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I think the U-9 is a BSA pushfeed.
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dakotasin
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 14:32 |
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zeb- welcome aboard. i think you'll find the level of expertise and experience on this board not lacking in any facet of shooting. wrt your specific issue, i'm afraid i'm not a whole lot of help - remingtons are my thing. only have a couple mausers, only one of which have i done anything w/. however, my 98/22 does about the same thing. i figured it was par for mausers to do that. although mine doesn't need a lot of force, it seems to operate smoother if the bolt is worked smartly vice just pushed in. seems that mine likes to hang up w/ the extractor contacting the rear of the front ring, too. (fwiw, i only feed mine from the mag) it seems that w/ most any gun, the extractor is the first item to look at when feeding problems arise. probably wouldn't hurt to have your 'smith file the extractor a little too so the gun doesn't have to be fed from the mag. |
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Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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Rob1
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 14:42 |
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last in line for the nobel peace prize. first in line for pie
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TasunkaWitko
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aka The Gipper Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Chinook Montana Status: Offline Points: 14753 |
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 16:27 |
yikes! the moment i saw the letters BSA, i realized my error! |
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana
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Rob1
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Posted: 25 April 2005 at 16:40 |
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Looks to me like Herter's used four different actions, the German made FN clone, the English BSA, and two Yugo made actions. Maybe the last two being full and intermediate length actions?
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Rob1 wrote: