Lots of good stuff in your post, SPOT SHOOTER. Let's see here :
With the "accuracy" issue, that's a shooter thing far more than a magnum thing. I'm curious how you'd feel about magnums if a shooter bellied up to the bench next to ya with his magnum of choice and proceeded to send groups down range that you couldn't match with your hunting rifles in the standard cartridges? Would getting someone competent behind the trigger validate the place of magnums?
"7x57 was a deadly elephant round from what I've read, so what changed?" Best answer for "what changed" would be a little common sense. There's a discussion over on Shooters.com about deer hunting with the .223. Folks are all up in arms with the suggestion that that small cartridge would work. Now, we all know that the .223 will certainly dispatch a deer with little fuss, but the question posed was, why? Why use a .223 on deer when there is so much out there better suited for the task? You really can't argue the thinking. Same with the "mighty" 7 on elephant. You could, but why? I wonder, if the laws weren't in place as they are over in Africa today, how many professional guides would allow their clients to use their favorite 7 Mauser to snag an elephant? You certainly could offer the reasoning that the infamous Mr. Bell used the cartridge to kill many an elephant in his day ... but I just don't think you'd get very far with that one 
.
"348, and 358 are tarriffic performers on whitetails at 24 to 2500 FPS" How do they perform on whitetail at 350 yds.? How 'bout 400 yds.? I love my .307, but it's got limitations. And there are situations where it would be far from a terrific performer. Magnums tend to lessen these limitations.
"what's the need fer a 3.6" ultra mag cartridge, muzzle break an all your overkill" This is an interesting question, SPOT SHOOTER. The "need" issue always seems to rear its ugly head when talking magnums. And you're 100% correct, if this whole hunting thing was centered around us using that one, single cartridge that we "needed", production of new stuff would have probably ended a long, long, loooooooooong time ago. Parish the thought !!!
You know, I've got the standards as well at the magnums. Lever, bolt, single shots. Rimfire and centerfire. Semi auto pistols, revolvers. Not a single one of these purchases was based on "need". I "wanted" each one. That's the driving force behind what I do with firearms and the cartridges I choose. I certainly didn't "need" to pick up a Savage .270 (easy NH_HUNTER, DAKOTASIN 
) last winter. With a .264 WinMag, 7mm RUM, 7.82 Warbird already in the safe, in reality, it was a step back-wards, performance wise. Did that stop the purchase. Hell no. I "wanted" it ... I got it. I've never justified by "need". What the hell do I "need" a .416 RemMag in central Montana for 
? Elk are tough, but they ain't that tough. I simply "wanted" it.
Oh yeah, I don't believe in overkill either. You either kill, or you don't kill. One or the other. No such thing as "over" killing, in my book.
Anyway, thanks for getting me back on track here, SPOT SHOOTER. I respect you ideas with the standards and you not liking the magnums. This post wasn't ment as a slight towards you in any way. Don't take it as such. Just light hearted chit-chat of different views. Take care. >> klallen
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