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Bullet seating depth????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSSP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2006 at 17:17

I'd always gone with what ever the manual suggested.   A few years back, I tried seating out farther; basically a caliber in depth, seated into the neck.  Now, I've gone as far as seating my Nosler 180 BT's, in my 30-06 so they touch the lands or just in 5 to 10 thou.  Basically, half the neck has bullet bearing surface in it.  Accuracy is incredible and It has freed up enough volume, I can about consistetly add upto 3 gr extra propellant.

Keep on Patterning

Big Al



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2006 at 17:22

Thanks Al.

Nice to see you post.  Where you from?

BEAR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2006 at 17:23

welcome to BSB, GSSP, and thanks for your service!

lee's "modern reloading" suggests that a consistent crimp will work the same as seating the bullets close to or on the lands. any thought on this?

TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2006 at 17:25

Al might add your self to the BSB map.  Also lets you see where we are all from.

BEAR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSSP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2006 at 02:12

Bear,

I'm from So California, but I left there almost 30 years ago when I joined the Army.  Live in Utah now.


Big Al

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSSP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2006 at 02:17

TasunkaWitko,

I'm one of the few people that feel that crimping bullets can be a useful thing for accuracy and extreme spread to a minimum. 

I've tried it in both 30-06 and 223.  My EOTWAWKI (end of the world as we know it) load uses the Hornady 75 BTHP match bullet in my AR15 and I ran a apples to apples test comparing crimped vs non-crimped and crimped won.  I use the Lee factory crimp die.  Have used it successfully for 30-06 too.

I've not heard of nor can see how crimping can be compared to seating to the lands.  Have to ponder that one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2006 at 05:54
lee's argument is that crimping and the seating to the lands both achieve the
same goal, which is to provide a uniform start pressure before the bullet
leaves the case.

i am inexperienced in this, but looking at it from the outside, it makes sense
to me.
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muleskinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2006 at 17:00
The Lee die works for me.  I think it improves accuracy when used in combination with proper OAL for a particular rifle.  Also, hunting rounds without a crimp are more suseptable to elements and impact damage.  Of course, I never really got into paper shooting more than working up loads, practicing and sighting-in my rifle.  Serious bench rest guys are much more anal about their loads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varmintcaller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 11:45
I use a stoney point guage and seat the bullets ten to twenty thousandths off of the lands, whatever that perticular rifle prefers. With my weatherby cartridges, i just seat the bullets to factory weatherby ammunition depths, because i use the same Hornady bullets that they do....works for me.
Molon Labe "Come take Them"






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2007 at 07:42

here are some thoughts from some folks. i don't remember the names, i saved it from the old shooters.com board:

Originally posted by unknown unknown wrote:

The method I use on bolt action rifles is to take a case that has been fired in that rifle and lightly bump it in a full lenth resizing die till the case neck will hold the bullet I'm woking with. But finger pressure can seat or pull the bullet. Leave the bullet sticking out of the case as far as possible. Chamber the bullet carfully and close the bolt. Open the bolt holding the case in with your fingers so that the extractor does not hold the bullet against the side of the chamber dragging the bullet out. Measure O.A.L. Repeat till you sure that your measurement is consisant. Subtract how much you want it off the lands and seat bullets to that O.A.L.


With soft nosed bullets you need to measuere a hand full to get an average length of that bullet, they do varry. If you stick a bullet into the lands and it pulls the bullet out of the case bump it out with a cleaning rod and adjust the taansion on the neck of the case. If you get it too tight there will be bright marks on the bullet from the rifling. you will also need to bump another case. Works for me and the cost is a bullet.


Originally posted by unknown unknown wrote:

This is how I seat bullets. Select the bullet with the flattest base(sharpest corners), that you have. Partially size just the neck of a case. Insert the bullet in the case, backwards. You need just enough tension to allow the bullet to be pushed into t
he case by the rifling. Insert the cartridge, carefully, into the chamber and close the bolt. Slowly extract the cartridge and measure its overall length. Repeat this several times, for consistency. This measurement is the distance from the bolt-face to  the  start of the rifling. Record this measurement.

Subtract from this measurement, the distance off the rifling, that you want the bullets seated. Stick one of the bullets you are working with, into the muzzle- backwards- and twist lightly, to engrave a ring around the ogive of the bullet. Place the engraved bullet correctly into a case and seat the bullet until the distance to the ring equals your desired seating depth. You need a metal caliper, not a plastic one.

I hope this is clear!


Originally posted by unknown unknown wrote:

You can go to the hardware store and get a nice 1/8 to 5/16 rod, three feet, depending on what caliber you are working on. Also get a couple of nylon bushings that will fit the rod, and a setscrew.

Square off the end of the rod first, then polish the outside surface until you think it is clean enough. Then fit the bushings/setscrew so it slides on the rod with a fair amount of friction, like a stop collar.
You'll also need a bore cleaning guide and another cleaning rod. I have made a bunch of homemades out of fired cases, tubing and epoxy. A dial or digital caliper is also required. But here's how I measure:

Close the bolt, carefully push the rod down to where it hits the bolt face. Then slide the collar down so it hits the muzzle.
Back the rod out about a quarter inch past max cartridge length.
Remove the bolt, slip a new bullet into the front of the bore guide, install the guide into the chamber. Then use another cleaning rod to gently push the bullet up into the rifling. Gently. Carefully slide the measuring rod back down the muzzle until it touches the bullet's nose.
Using both hands simultaneously on both rods, push back and forth, you will be able to feel the bullet engage and disengage the rifling. Finally, you should have the measuring rod in contact with the bullet, which in turn is right at perfect contact, touching but not sticking when you push the other way. Carefully take the caliper and measure from the bushing face to the muzzle. That will give you your number.
Write the number down, then do the &quot;feel&quot; again, then remeasure. If the numbers agree to a thousandth, you did it right. Mark that magic number on your box of bullets and in your reload records.

I then push the bullet back into the cleaning guide, pull the guide, then use THAT BULLET to set up the seating die, either to contact, or minus whatever the rifle seems to like. That case and bullet are usually set aside in a collection of dummy rounds I use for setup.
 
So far, I haven't blown myself up, and I get good groups.
By the way, this setup is a quick and dirty way to measure firing pin protrusion. Just set the collar against the bolt face, then pull the rod back a bit, drop the firing pin then shove the rod back in and measure that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sst_us Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2007 at 18:31
On my hunting rifles, I seat bullets just deep enough to give me about .005" clearance in the magazine, then mark the bullets with a Magic Marker and run them into the chamber to see if the rifling marks any of the bullets. If not, that's my maximum overall cartridge length.  If I see rifling on the ogive, I seat them a little deeper until no rifling appears on the ogive.  I work up loads at that seating depth until I find my pet load, then back off .010" at a time to find the sweet spot.
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Sam Taylor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2009 at 10:38

here's another note on determining seating depth another forum:

[/quote]You can do so by taking a fired case and slightly denting the case mouth so that it will hold a bullet but with some friction. Push the bullet into the case with your fingers and chamber the round and let the rifling push the bullet into the case as you close the bolt. That will be close to where the bullet hits the lands. Do this several times and check your measurements to make sure you are getting a consistant reading. After you get a reading deduct about .008" as your bullet is sort of engraving just a bit into the rifling by using this method.[/quote]

TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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