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Topic Closeda shotgun is a shotgun.....is a shotgun?

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TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: a shotgun is a shotgun.....is a shotgun?
    Posted: 13 December 2003 at 04:32

say you've got a 12ga. shotgun, and your buddy has a 12ga shotgun of a different make/model. what are the real differences? craftmanship? price? "accuracy?" will it last longer? or is it just the name plate?

i know nothing about shotguns, but it seems to me that since they blow shot in a pattern, you really aren't going to find one that is more accurate than the other, especially since the choke patterns are pretty well standardized. so is it just a matter of taste? why spend 1500$ for a shotgun when one for 200$ will do the same job? or will it?

i guess the question is: is the price difference more than simply gold inlays and fancy walnut?

TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2003 at 06:00
I think a lot of the $$ goes for the name, then fit & finish, followed by design (break action, auto, pump) and so on.

I think there is something to the accuracy, but it has more to do with barrel and sight placement and fit. If the gun fits you poorly, it may put the pattern in a off center location. In the long run, some will hold up better than others, some will hold their value better. I don't think the most expensive shotguns are necessary, just as not everyone needs a $2000 custom rifle. I know a few guys with mossberg 500's, a nice cheap gun that shoots well and has held up good for them, someone that really abuses their stuff may want a little better one, the cheaper ones may not hold up to the abuse.

Just go and try them on, find one that you like the looks of and fits you well, and you can afford, pretty much the same as with rifles.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2003 at 09:58
 ron: i have 3 mossburgs. 2 mod. 500 20 ga's and and 1 835  12 ga. i like them. the 20's are better for a long carrie. but for power the 835 with a 3.5 in it dose the job. the kids have 870's rems. the 3.5 mods. its what they wanted thats what they got. they shoot with guys that have the 1100, 11-87 and the other priceyer shotguns.  the kids do just as good as the other guys. like bk said its all what YOU want to get and spend.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2003 at 16:27
Much in the same wayrifles are separated by class, so are shotguns. Side by side shotguns, the finer ones, are the most coveted. Shotguns like Winchester 21's, Parker Brothers, LC Smith, are as good today as they were when they left the factory. The English side by sides are the evolution of the gunmakers art. There is nothing finer, in fit, finish, weight, balance, and in a lot of cases, engraving. No one builds better side by sides than the English. When you hold in your hand, a Purdy shotgun that costs in excess of $100,000, you are as close to heaven as you ever will get while on earth. Of course, a gun like this was specifically made for an individual, and it usually takes an average of three years to hand make a shotgun such as this. The over unders, made in Japan and Italy, are great guns too, and a lot more affordable. Over unders are usually made to shoot skeet, but not limited to skeet. Gas guns (semi auto's) are mostly the American variety. Benelli also makes a great semi, in their Super 90. Picking up a shotgun, any shotgun, check how it feels in your hands. Check where it balances. Check how it sights when you mount it. A lot of the less expensive guns feel like an awkward club. I shoot a lot of shotgun, and I shoot mostly an 1100, but I also have been seen shooting my WW Greener. There is NO comparison between the two. The 1100 is just a highly functional shotgun as I see it, but when I want a thrill, I break out the Greener. Most all fine English side by sides balance perfect, and most all the weight of the gun is between your hands, as it should be. My 1100 is a tad muzzle heavy and I lopped the barrel off at 26" and choke tubed it. Things like drop, cast, and balence are all important with any shotgun. Most of the shotguns today are generic in feel. 13 1/2 inches of pull, no cast, and about 1 1/2 to 2" of drop. Geeze, you asked a simple question and I tell you how to build a shotgun!!! Anyway, I didn't neglect to mention pump shotguns, I like them too. I have a few Model 12's and several 870's and shoot them too. Around here, if I don't come home smelling like burned powder and gun oil, they think I'm sick...............Kingpin
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2003 at 23:08

Tas,

   King laid it out pretty good, the machining required, along with hand crafted work will always make the O/U's more expensive.

   There are other considerations also, durability being one - take a trap gun that you shoot 300 rounds a day with vs. a field gun and you'll soon know why. - Did you know real trap gun's don't have safety's?  When you competition shoot a shotgun subutle issues like a 1/8th inch in drop are major, and i mean major.  Kick is other that is affected by the stock angle, and drop along with barrel porting.  Possibly release triggers, moveable cheek peices and more like recoil compensators.   Shot gun competition shooter eat up money like crazy - 300 rounds, $100 for entry fees, and more if you want to practice. (oh thats one day of a 2 day shoot.)

  Last but not least you have field stripable for repairing firing pins' & such - along with reliablity - does it go bang when you want it too.  Break opens are better than this than others, however a good one is heavy too absorb kick - a field gun is the opposite weight.

I'd better hush up now.

Spot

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2003 at 14:07

Tas,

A Trap, skeet, sporting clays or live pigeon shooter will easily shoot 10,000 rounds a year. Some double and triple that. A Walmart shotgun will just not hold up to the pounding. A popular gas gun has been the various models of Browning Gold. And the 390-391 Berettas too. They are typically good for 30,000 rounds before something major, like the aluminum reciever, gives up. A solid framed single or over/under will out pace them many times over the increased cost of purchase. I have a semi retired 3200 Remington that began life in 1974. In those days I went thru ammo like a fat woman thru french fries. I shot in Spots' neighborhood. Skeet on Tuesday nights, trap on Friday nights, and both on the weekends. 500 rounds a week without any registered targets, which added at least 400 skeet targets per weekend shoot and 100 singles, 100 doubles and 100 handicap trap if you shot them all. The guns took a pounding. I replaced the firing pins a few times on the 32oo, and i think 2 sets of extractors. It went back to Remington  for an update in the mid 80s. Altho a little loose now it is good to go and it may have fired over 100,000 rounds.

I own some Citories that have done as well. I have a 687 Beretta that has digested an obscene amount of ammo on the sporting clays circuit and seems imune to wearing out. I once shot a ten week league, 100 rounds a week, plus probably twice as many small quage shells thru it per week, WITHOUT CLEANING IT !!! other than wiping it down on the outside! A Mossberg will do for a while and kills game just fine. But to say that all shotguns are equal is as true as claiming any woman, beer, bird dog, truck, or hambuger is as good as any other for their intended purpose. You get what you pay for.

max

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2003 at 02:22

Max, Not being an owner of one, I have always loved the Remington 3200. Since you have a few of the pricey Italian and Browning guns, you probably ought to let the 3200 go to its reward with a guy like me. LOL there it is, another offer......................Kingpin

 

By the way, how is it choked?



Edited by Kingpin
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2003 at 02:47

Put me on the "low end of the knowledge" when it comes to shotguns. I've owned a couple of Rem 870's pumps over the years and a Winchester "Defender". I had a nice little double hammerless coachgun for Western Action shooting.

Then there's the old damascus barreled double hammer 12 ga [2 1/2" shells] shotgun "Manton" [English, I believe] that was my Granddad's. This old thing stood for many years propped up behind his furnace for no other reason than "just in case".

I currently have just one functional shotgun. A vintage Remington 870 inherited from a great-uncle, all stock, except fitted with an Express 20" riflesite barrel. This one comes along on all the camping trips in the trailer. It's propped up just inside the closet door "just in case".

There isn't anything like the "racking" of a shell into the chamber of a Rem 870 12 ga when you need it. LOL.

Regards, Marcus.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2003 at 08:45

Kingpin,

The skeet barrels are .004 each. The single barrel was tubed by Briley. The small guage sets are all tubed.

I once opened up a safe to show a non shooting friend some guns. Trying to impress the quy I handed him a Superposed, then a Model 21 my father left me,  and then my ace in the hole show off piece-a single shot 8x65r Brenneke, full stocked with buffalo horn trigger quard and schnabel, set trigger and nicely engraved reciever with detachable claw mounts ( some one left it behind near Liege- never found the scope or mounts). The man handed each one back to me after looking them over briefly and asked," Don't you have any new ones?"

It is nice to know you are willing to take the 'old ' stuff off a man's hands. Thanks- I'll let you know if I have a sudden urge to up-grade.

max

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2003 at 11:20

Like Max said them "trap-n-skeet" shooters need a high grade for lot's of rounds per year,, but that ole reliable 870 has put alot of meat on the table for lot's of folks,, an been passed for generations already. After a few 100 ducks,and a bunch of pheasants,toss in a few deer,grouse an what have ya's, it's a good gun ta have around. Barrels and part's are ta hand most every shop ya walk into. Easy to break down and care for by the common man,no tricky parts!

I just wish mine was the 3.5 like mom's kids instead of my old 3":( dang!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2004 at 02:41

The big difference is fit and finish. Also to a degree, dropping labor costs, popularity = price. Think about it for a moment....

20+ yrs. ago you could barely give away an O/U or S x S, sure collectors or pro shooters would pay X dollars for some models, but average folks like us concentrated on what? Semi-autos and to a slightly smaller degree slide action (pumps).

Luckily, my father and I (cause I talked him into it), started buying old S x S shotguns. Glad we did. Geez the prices now! Dad also purchased, honest!, one of the first Ruger O/U's in 20 bore. Most of his friends thought he was nuts.

Nowdays is a great time to go out and purchase the old shotguns w/fixed chokes, etc. Heck, they're cheap and you would be amazed at what you'll find for very little $. For a fixed choke, go out and pattern it w/diff. loads and one might be suprised at one might find! You don't have to have choke tubes!

Geez, I could go on and on, but Kingpin has answered the question better than I have!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2004 at 16:53

Everyone has posted some ggod points. I believe the smoothness of the action is also a factor. Well made and well designed shotguns are simply worth more. Even amoung side by sides or O/U guns there are many options for example extractors or auto ejectors, single, single selective or double triggers. In autos you have recoil or gas action, some have magazine cut offs , does the gun have a plain barrel or solid or vented rib. As you can see there are endless combinations and no one that is best in all situations. For example a competition shooter usually wants extractors but in a duck blind auto ejectors are usually a positive feature.For some hunting a light weight gun can be a dream but in a duck or goose blind a few more properly placed pounds are a bonus.

As a hunter that does some upland and some waterfowl with a bit of trap thrown in I find a medium weight O/U works for me but somedays it is too heavy, others it is on the light side. A choice of chokes is nice on hungarians or pheasants but a 3rd shot would be nice for ducks.

What some rifle hunters may not realize is that in a shotgun fit is everything. Because your eye acts as the rear sight if the gun does not come to the shoulder and properly align your eye the pattern will be off enough that hits are impossible.

Murf
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2004 at 19:09

I’ve not been into small game hunting or much shotgunning for about 3 decades, but do have two shotguns in my collection. This is a little toy Remington that got added last Nov to supplement a Rem 11-87 12 ga. I’ll be using it for partridges in northern LP of Mich this fall. It’s an 870 Wingmaster in 28 ga with a 25 inch bbl and 3 chokes and weighs only 6 lbs. I fell for it as soon as I saw it. It’s the equal of a compact rifle in handling and carrying. I just have to get a lot of practice in this summer.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2004 at 06:30

EDip,

Thats why I like Wingmaster's. Thats a beutiful gun.

Wing master

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2004 at 03:24
 Well nice shotguns I'd be afraid to take them out. I've only got two one is a stevens dbl side by side 20, and a marlin goosegun 12/3"mag.I love the dbl but years a go it saved my life(kept me from falling off a cliff) and suferd some stock damage,I glued back to geather but did'nt shoot it any more as a reminder!! So that leaves the 12, I got it in 1975, and have shot it excucively sence 88.I've shot over 10,000 shells sence them never had a misfire or any other prob.It dbls as a slug gun for big game,use it for water foul, it has a sling so it's great for thoes long distence partrige hunts, and just reasently for turkeys. It's no longer a good LOOKER  but it's still a SHOOTER!!!!!!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2004 at 08:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2004 at 05:23

I believe you first have to pick the type of action YOU like in a shotgun! Then go look at the various models, weather that be single shot, a double barrel side by side, Over & Under, Semi-Auto Action, a Pump Gun, or the Bolt Action.....yes they make em.

I myself prefer the Remington model 1100 for an ALL AROUND type gun, which  is the semi-auto action. Some folks won't shoot anything but a Pump Gun!

If hunting with a group of hunters in a pheasant field, I like an O/U for safety sake (also like hunting with others who are carrying them too)

The pretty stocks on some of those shotguns make the price jump way up and fitting etc is also part of the deal on a custom gun. Gun Smith work or fitting gets expensive on any shotgun. Not to mention the inlay work in gold or scroll work on any shotgun drives that price upward in a big hurry.

My Turkey Gun is a pump gun, with a special choke for a tight pattern out to 45 yards using # 5 shot.



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