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Home Made Bore Cleaners |
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Kingpin
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aka Old IronSides Joined: 01 July 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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Topic: Home Made Bore CleanersPosted: 14 November 2004 at 01:35 |
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Some time ago, I mentioned that I got some info about using automatic transmission fluid (ATF) for bore cleaner. I did some checking with the guy that sent me the info, and here is what he sent me. To be sure, use all the safety precautions that you can if you try it. Some of the quantities will be a life time of bore cleaner, but, the ingredients are reasonably priced. Some of the formulas will cause the EPA to have burst blood vessels, but who cares about them.I HAVE tried the first one. A guy gave me some at a match and it works, so, without further adue, I invite your attention to "Ed's Red."..............................Kingpin____________________________________________________________ _ Homemade Firearm Cleaners & LubricantsHere by popular request is some information on alternative products and on making up your own cleaning, lubricating, and related items for shooting and reloading. These products work as well as or sometimes better than the commercial products and cost less. (Every penny you save means more components or ammo you can buy!) In addition, many of the brand name proprietary cleaners and lubes are repackage commercially available compound and with a little research on can sometimes figure out what they are. If you have any favorite "home brews" that you use and find effective, or can offer any suggestions or improvements send me an email at: frfrog@sprynet.com and maybe you'll see them here. SAFETY NOTICE Some of the chemicals suggested here, particularly acetone, MEK, and ammonia are "hazardous materials" and can pose a significant health or fire hazards if not used correctly. Mix outdoors or with appropriate ventilation and respiratory protection, avoid flames or sparks, and avoid skin contact. Wear eye protection when mixing. If in doubt about proper safety measures obtain the appropriate Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) which can be obtained on line through http://msds.pdc.cornell.edu/msdssrch.asp http://hazard.com/msds/index.php Ed's Red
For each gallon of Ed's Red produced you can also add 1 pound of anhydrous lanolin (CAS#8006-54-0), which helps to neutralize fingerprints but it's really not necessary. You can also leave out the acetone but then it doesn't remove plastic wad fouling as well. Store in airtight chemical-proof containers as the acetone, if used, will evaporate. Two sources for bulk anhydrous lanolin is http://www.selectoils.com/soaps/lanolin.htm and http://www.thesage.com/ . According to Ed, "Ed's Red" will flow at -65oF and won't carbonize at 600oF. It has seen use by both the FBI and the Army marksmanship Training Units. MIXING INSTRUCTIONS Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt it in a hot water bath (lanolin melts at about 107 degrees F), or use a double boiler and avoid exposing to open flames. Pour the melted lanolin it into the larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. (It will also, but slowly, dissolve in mineral spirits if you want to avoid using heat.) You can divert a small quantity, up to 4 ounces per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for use as an "Ed's Red-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the mix. INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING b) Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action. c. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use. d) Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for up to 30 days. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years. e) Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes and it could damage some plastics if left in prolonged contact. f) Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described. It has been reported that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean twice, two days apart, whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the residue out. Thanks to Jim Dodd for the above instructions Eds Red Plus This variation on the Ed's Red formula gives it a copper removing ability similar to the commercial bore cleaner Marksman's Choice MC-7. You will need:
Mix the oil soap and ammonia in a separate container. In a suitable 1 pint container containing 11 ounces of Ed's Red, add the cutting oil and mix together. Then add the oil soap/ammonia mixture to Ed's Red/ cutting oil and shake the container to mix the ingredients. You will end up with a pink opaque liquid that for the most part remains in solution, but some components may settle out over an extended period. It is always best to shake well before using. The resulting solution will remove mild copper deposits in bores if allowed to work about 15-20 minutes. Water soluble cutting oils and rust inhibitors can be obtained online from http://www.mscdirect.com or locally from your industrial supplier. Metal screw top containers can be obtained from http://www.taxidermy.com under | Products | Molding and Casting | Containers, Cups and Tools. Thanks to Bill Mecca for this information. Black Powder Cleaners If you will be using Ed's Red mostly for black powder and old chlorate primed military ammo, there is a modification to ER that may be of interest. Substitute a "fire retardant hydraulic fluid concentrate," or "rust inhibiting water soluble oil" suited for water hydraulics for four fluid oz. of the ATF in a gallon mix of ER. The resulting mix will form a stable emulsion when mixed in a 50-50 ratio with distilled water (NOT tap water). The resulting mix is very similar to "Moose Milk", though it may actually be better. To do this, mix the ER as usual, substituting the water soluble oil for 1/8 of the ATF in the mix, or 4 oz. if you are adding a quart of ATF to mix a gallon of ER. Once the ER is mixed, heat the distilled water just short of the boiling point, steaming with bubbles just beginning to form, and pour this SLOWLY into the Ed's Red while stirring. It should form a pink, soapy looking liquid like Pepto Bismol. Arco Emulsiplex or Trimsol, Lyondell Satisol, or Tooltex cutting fluid concentrate, or other water soluble cutting oils are suitable, as long as they DO NOT contain any chlorine or sulfur. That's also why you should use distilled water instead of tap water. Another black powder cleaner that is being used by Civil War re-enactors is composed of 1 part rubbing alcohol, 1 part hydrogen peroxide (typical 3 percent drugstore kind), and 1 part Murphy's Oil Soap or a generic equivalent. It cuts Black Powder (even caked on residue that has been left from one event to the next) very quickly. Because of the alcohol, it does tend to eliminate most of the oil it comes into contact with, so be sure to lightly oil everything unless you are going to be firing immediately. Thanks to Warren Harrison for this recipe ...And For Historical Reference--The Original Hoppes No. 9
Storage Rust Preventative For long term storage you can use Lee Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. Apply an even coating to all metallic surfaces. "Ed's Red" will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene. Copper Fouling Removal The "Ammonia Solution" If your local ACE hardware store doesn't stock the "10% Janitor's Strength Ammonia," they can order it for you from their master order book. The stock number for the 1 quart size is ACE10183. If you are worried about its high strength, you can bring it down to the 6 - 8 percent ammonia content of most commercial copper removers by cutting the janitor's strength ammonia with some K1 kerosene or water--try 3.5 to 4 parts 10% ammonia to 1 part water or K1 kerosene. This seems to have little, if any effect, on its copper removal abilities. Straight 28% ammonia (CAS#7664-41-7) followed by a thorough cleaning with Ed's Red can also be used but 28 percent ammonia may be difficult to get and is VERY strong stuff and potentially aggressive on metal. Some notes about Ammonia. Ammonia won't harm the rifle's metal, the pH is way down there for even 10% but as you get into stronger solutions (> 10%) the pH becomes basic ( >7 up to 14) and is caustic. The problem comes from ammonia being hygroscopic and folks not cleaning it all out of the bore and the attracted water then causes rusting. [As a test I left a polished mild steel strip in straight 10% ammonia for 48 hours and saw no noticeable corrosion or etching.] Thanks to Roger Rothschild, Chemist, for this information. ...and an Improvement--"CopperClear" This modification of the "ammonia solution" thickens the liquid and helps to keep it in the bore for more efficient cleaning. You can if you like omit the 1-part sudsy ammonia
This formula yields about a 6.5 percent ammonia solution. If you omit the sudsy ammonia the solution is about 7.75 percent. Thanks to Mark Humphreville via Ed Harris for this improvement A Homemade Electronic Copper Fouling Remover
You can bore a 3/16" hole about 1/2" deep in the narrow end of the rubber stopper to help serve as a rod center. Install a series of "O" rings about every 6" or use the shrink tubing to build up small rings around the rod that will slide down the bore. These will center the rod and prevent the rod from contacting the barrel and shorting out. Bore a hole in the bottom of the flash light and solder a black wire to the negative terminal. Next bore a hole around where the positive terminal is on the lamp side of the switch--frequently this is the side of the reflector. Solder the wire to that point. (What you are doing is basically ignoring the switch and using the gun/solution/rod circuitry as a switch.) A basic schematic is shown below.
Put the flashlight together and make sure the switch is in the off position. Attach the alligator clips to the wires. If you are electrically inclined you can add a potentiometer and a milliamp meter so you can control the current more closely. You ideally want to keep the voltages below 3 volts and the current no more than about 100 - 200 milliamps. I have had several reports that a power supply meant for R/C model planes that has constant voltage and adjustable milliamp output with a meter can be used. One of the multi-voltage "AC adapters" from places like Radio Shack have also been successfully used. Make your cleaning solution of:
It is best to remove the barreled action from the stock for cleaning. For best results clean and then degrease the bore with a commercial "gun scrubber" or automotive brake cleaner. Plug the chamber with the rubber stopper and carefully insert the rod down the bore and insure it is seated in the hole in the stopper. Using a dropper or a syringe fill the bore with the cleaning solution and the attach the black wire to the rod and red wire to the gun. If the gun is dirty the flashlight will glow but not at full power. If the flashlight immediately glows full power the rod is not centered in the bore and has caused a short. Allow the unit to work for 45 min or so, disconnect the leads and carefully pull the rod out of the bore. DO NOT ALLOW TO RUN OVERNIGHT as the current in this unit is higher than that in the Outer's unit! The accumulated copper fouling can be removed from the rod with fine steel wool. Drain the barrel, remove the stopper and dry the bore and chamber. Run a couple of patches with bore cleaner on them through the bore and chamber to prevent any after rust and you're done. Those of you with a background in metal plating may want to contribute your own solution recipes. Send them to me at: frfrog@sprynet.com. 36" long TIG welding rod in stainless steel are available from local welding shop. Get 3/32" and 1/8" diameters at a cost of about $1.25 each. Ideally you want a rod about 1/2 to 2/3 of the bore diameter. Thanks to Robert Schaedel, et. al. for this tip. An Improved Homemade Electronic Copper Fouling Remover Some Interesting Information.
Note that the Outers FoulOut unit limits the voltage and current in the electrolysis process and runs at less than less than 2 volts--typically about .3 volts-- at less than 1 amp--typically a max of about 20 milliamps. If the vinegar/ammonia solution described for the homemade unit is used in an Outer's unit the cleaning process will be much slower because the solution does not contain any ions of the lead or copper (one reason the homemade unit runs at a higher voltage). Possible sources for these chemicals in small quantities are:
The following is from Outer's Q&A page.
Military Copper Fouling Removal Solution (c.1917) Described in the US Military publications for the 1903 and M1917 rifles was the following "heavy duty" copper removal formula.
Finely grind the persulfate and carbonate, dissolve in the water and then add the ammonia. Allow to stand for 1 hour before using. Plug the breach and slip a piece of rubber hose over the muzzle. Fill the cold barrel and the section of hose with the solution. Allow to stand for 30 minutes. Dump the solution and clean the bore normally and oil. Mac's Red
Carbon / Crud Cleaner For cleaning carbon and dried grease in tight places try generic commercial automotive brake cleaner. Just as good, more readily available, and MUCH cheaper than the gun stuff. Products like GumOut™ can also be used. Note that these cleaners remove any preservative oil or grease coatings on the metal so you should lightly coat things with your favorite oil or preservative when done cleaning. Gun Oil Substitutes Synthetic Automotive Oils Air Conditioning Refrigerant Oil Slick Stuff
Thanks to John Nichols for this tip Amsoil Thanks to Roger Rothschild for this tip. Slippery Stuff Thanks to Jim Conway for this tip. Lead Removal For really stubborn lead removal try a 50/50 mix of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (the common drug store variety) and white vinegar. Plug the bore, fill it up using a dropper or syringe and let it stand for 5-10 minutes. (Do not let it stand for too long.) You may get some foaming so protect the barrel's external finish as this solution is not kind to bluing--so take appropriate precautions. Drain and wipe out the black muck that used to be lead and then immediately clean well with bore cleaner. Thanks to Joe Sledge for this recipe. Pure turpentine has reportedly also been used as a lead remover. An excellent bore polishing paste that works as well as JB's can be made from equal parts of BonAmi™, paste wax (like Johnson & Johnson or Butchers), and light oil. The BonAmi is the "doesn't scratch" product. Regular abrasive cleansers may be too harsh for use in a bore. Another old standby is to use a hand type automobile rubbing compound and a larger tan normal sized bore brush (say, one size larger--.25 in a .22 bore, .33 in a .30, etc.). For both of these methods you will need a rod that allows the tip to rotate as it passes through the bore. To use either of these solutions strip the action and clamp horizontally in padded vise jaws. Clean the barrel normally. Then, run the rod through the bore from the breach end, attach the oversized brush and coat with the compound. The pull it back through the bore to the chamber (don't allow it to clear the chamber, to help keep "stuff" out of the action) and repeat this 25 or 30 times. Then with the brush outside the muzzle remove the brush and then pull the rod out of the barrel. Then attach a proper sized jag and a clean patch to the rod and from the breach work the patch back and forth several times. Repeat this with clean patches until the patch comes out clean. Thoroughly flush the chamber and action with solvent to remove any grit, and then reclean the bore and chamber with normal bore cleaner. Your bore will be noticeable cleaner and smoother. I recently tested some MAAS Metal Polishing Creme made by MAAS International. While not designed as a bore paste it did a very nice job on smoothing out several barrels and left then very clean and shiny. First clean the barrel normally with both regular bore cleaner and a copper remover. Then coat a patch with the MAAS and using a tight fitting jag work it through the bore using a series of short strokes. Repeat several times with a new patch and polish and then final clean with bore cleaner to remove any residue. It is not as aggressive as JB or the above homemade stuff so it may not work as well on a really rough bore. The MAAS Polishing Creme is available at some Walmart, Home Depots, Walgreens, ACE, Tru-Serv, others in a 2 ounce size for about $4 and on line at www.maasinc.com in a 4 ounce size for about $12. Case Tumbling Media Many pet stores carry ground corncob media for small pet bedding. It is usually a little coarser than most normal tumbling media but it should still be perfect for tumbling cases (and not get stuck in flash holes). Prices at my local Petsmart were about 2/3 of the shooting stuff. For ground walnut shells many pet stores sell it in the same grit size as the shooting stuff as "lizard litter" or "bird cage litter." The local price seems to be about a 30 percent cheaper than the shooting product. You can also try your phone book's yellow pages for an industrial abrasives dealer. While you'll have to buy the corn cob or walnut media in 50 pound bags from them the price is usually about half (or less) of the price from firearms related sources, and it should keep you in clean tumbling media for the next several years. For an extra high polish add a small amount of non-ammonia containing automotive rubbing compound to the corn cob media and run your tumbler for a few minutes before adding the cases. A word to the wise. If you share your home with furpeople keep your tumbling media covered or you may find some strange "cases" in it. Cats think its a dandy litter box filler.
Chemical Case Cleaning Solutions While tumbling cases in an abrasive media provides the best finish, extremely dirty cases can be decapped first (using a non-sizing die) and then washed in one of the following solutions. The final rinse in soapy water helps prevent tarnishing. All of these methods were approved by Frankford Arsenal and will not weaken your brass.
Cases which have been fired several times and which show signs of carbon build up internally can be rinsed in straight paint & varnish makers (P&VM) naphtha available at any paint store. Decap, soak for 5 - 10 minutes, drain, allow to air dry and then tumble as usual. Cases will be sparkling clean inside and out. An interesting idea is to use an "air stone" and a small air pump from a fish aquarium tank to agitate the liquid cleaning solutions. Thanks to Randy Wood for this tip. Case Sizing Lubricants Spray Lube Liquid lanolin, which is a refined lanolin oil with the solid fats removed (the reason why solid anhydrous lanolin doesn't work well in this application) is available from health food stores and sources specializing in ingredients for cosmetics. You want to get pure liquid lanolin without additives. Online sources include Heritage Store (http://www.nutritionblvd.com/188045.html) and VitaGlo (http://www.vitaglo.com/7730.html). I just recently discovered that my local Safeway store carries 99 percent isopropyl in their drug/cosmetic isle for $0.99 for a 16 ounce bottle. Ninety-nine percent isopropyl alcohol is also available from many large paint stores (used to some finishes), some electronics stores (it's used for cleaning electronics) or local industrial chemical suppliers. A solution of 1 part liquid lanolin and 4 to 5 parts parts 99 percent isopropyl alcohol (4 oz of liquid lanolin to16 - 20 oz of isopropyl) works well. When mixing you may find that the lanolin mixes better if you warm both the alcohol and lanolin in a bath of warm water to about 105 - 110 degrees F before mixing. DO NOT WARM EITHER OF THEM OVER AN OPEN FLAME! Once the solutions are warm, pour together, mix thoroughly, allow the mix to cool (mix occasionally as it cools) and store in an air tight container to prevent water from being absorbed by the isopropyl. For a spray bottle you can use an old commercial spray lube bottle or an old pump hair spray bottle that has been thoroughly cleaned. To apply the lube, spread the cases in a single layer on a clean surface (those disposable aluminum oven liner trays are great and prevent the wrath of your chef when it is discovered that the cookie trays were used) and lightly and evenly spray the cases. Allow the cases to sit for a couple of minutes, roll the cases around and lightly spray again. Wait until the alcohol has evaporated (about 5 minutes) and start sizing. Properly lubed cases will have a slightly greasy feel to them without feeling slimy. One of the advantages of using sprayed on lanolin as a case lube is that, in the quantities used, any residual lube has no effect on powder or primers. Solid "Wipe On" Lubes Many large drug stores have bulk anhydrous lanolin or they will order it for you, or you can order in it 4, 8, or 16 ounce containers, from Majestic Mountain Sage, 881 West 700 North Ste 107, Logan, Utah 84321, Phone: 435-755-0863, or online at: http://www.thesage.com/catalog/FixedOil.html#Lanolin. Many people have reported that they have used a little bit of STP oil treatment on their fingers or commercial water based silicone cable pulling lube as a sizing lube. Rust Removal Brake Fluid Electrolysis Rust Removal
Cautions: Wear eye protection and rubber gloves when working with this solution is very alkaline and can cause irritation. The electrolysis process breaks down water into its component parts, hydrogen and oxygen, which can be explosive. Work outside or in a very well ventilated area. Be sure your battery charger/power supply is unplugged before attaching or touching the leads. In the container, mix 1 tablespoon of washing soda for each gallon of water to make up your solution. Be sure the washing soda is thoroughly dissolved. Place a steel rod either through the part to be cleaned (use o-rings to prevent the part from touching the rod), or numerous rods around the inside of your container. Connect these rods with wire; these will be the anode. You must be sure that the part to be cleaned is not touching the rod(s). Suspend the part in the solution with steel cable or wire so that it makes a good electrical contact with the part; this will become the cathode. Connect the negative lead (black) to the part being cleaned, connect the positive (red) lead to the rod(s), then plug in the charger. You will immediately begin to see bubbles; this is hydrogen and oxygen as the water breaks down. Allow the part to "cook" for 3-4 hours. The time is dependent on the size of the part, amount of rust, and the current of the power supply. After you remove the part, immediately clean and dry it off, then coat it with a good quality gun oil or rust preventative oil. Thanks to Roy Seifert for this tip Roy reports that he used this process on a 1911 frame that had a lot of surface rust all throughout the inside. He set the frame upside down on wooden blocks in the electrolysis solution and placed a rod with o-rings through the magazine well. He used a 1.5 amp trickle charger and left it for about 4 hours. When finished, the frame was completely free of rust, and the bluing was intact. Stock Finish Repair This tip isn't quite a cleaner/lube but it is worth while. To repair scratches on varnished or epoxy finished stocks try automotive "clear coat" touch up paint available at auto parts stores in little bottles with a brush in the touch up paint section. Please email comments to Fr. Frog at frfrog@sprynet.com | Back to Fr. Frogs Homepage | Back to Page 4 of Q&A | Disclaimer As far as I know all the information presented above is correct and I have attempted to insure that it is. However, I am not responsible for any errors, omissions, or damages resulting from the use or misuse of this information, nor for your doing something stupid with it. (Don't you hate these disclaimers? So do I, but there are people out there who refuse to be responsible for their own actions and who will sue anybody to make a buck.) |
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Timberghozt
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aka GarryOwen Joined: 21 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1971 |
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Posted: 14 November 2004 at 02:23 |
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Hey KP.Excellent information.I have always used Hoppes bore cleaner or the Birchwood/Casey stuff. I might give some of those recipes a try though and stash a bulk supply away in my barn. On the subject of case cleaning media, I never thought about these pet stores carrying ground walnut hulls. For an extra high polish add a small amount of non-ammonia containing automotive rubbing compound to the corn cob media and run your tumbler for a few minutes before adding the cases. A word to the wise. If you share your home with furpeople keep your tumbling media covered or you may find some strange "cases" in it. Cats think its a dandy litter box filler. Well if I ever dig in my tumbler and find a nasty cat turd while I`m looking for a polished 300Win Mag peice of brass,I can bet ya I know a cat that`ll be doing the olympic horizontal high dive out the back door. |
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"Don`t touch my .50 numbnuts" Me..... |
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waksupi
.416 Rigby
aka Keeper of the Old Traditions Joined: 11 June 2003 Status: Offline Points: 2371 |
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Posted: 14 November 2004 at 04:38 |
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Thanks for the info. I like Froggies page, some real good stuff posted there. I've been using Ed's Red for years. It's good, it cheap, it's good because it is cheap!
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Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus
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Gunrunner
.416 Rigby
** Forest Grump ** Joined: 05 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1970 |
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Posted: 14 November 2004 at 04:40 |
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Lotta good info here. I like that idea for using a flashlight to clean the copper from the bore.
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Somebody better call the Secret Service. Let 'em know there's an illegal alien in the White House...and it ain't the cook!!
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Kingpin
.416 Rigby
aka Old IronSides Joined: 01 July 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11716 |
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Posted: 14 November 2004 at 05:55 |
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A friend of mine emailed me about the ATF, so I asked for more info. The trouble is, when you ask some guys what time it is, they tell you how to build a watch. Glad you liked it. When I tumble, I don't use media. Rather, I use water and a teaspoon of Dawn dish washing soap. I use a rock tumbler though, so it's like a frogs asshole, water tight. I rinse the cases thoroughly and pop them into the oven at the very lowest setting for 20 minutes to dry them. It makes them look brand new.....................Kingpin
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There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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