Berreta M9

My personal belief is that the M9 is way too big for the cartridge.
I also believe that it was designed, for the most part, to be as idiot
proof as possible. Idiot proofing was probably a more important design criteria than
actually being an effective combat weapon.
There ain't no such thing as "knock down power" in any handgun. Penetrating wounds are dangerous...period.
Way too many people watch Hollyweird action movies where a "jerk off belt" is used on the shooteee
to show him being slammed backwards by the incredible power of the hero's BBgun.
I think the 9x19, with modern expanding ammunition is a good choice for self defense.
9x19 FMJ Nato is designed as a wounder, not a killer. Wounding is more important in a military arm than
killing.
These are my opinions, I'm sure there are others that think differently.

Hehe how about the Ruger P95. Now that would be sweet  If only Ruger could get a military arms contract. They do make a submachine gun but it is just weird looking. They also have the AC 556 which is a selective fire (semi, 3 rd, full auto) version of the mini-14. You can get it with a walnut or a folding stock.

O yeah, cant forget the Ruger M77MK2 VLE sniper rifle! I think it looks perty http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=10571673

NH_Hunter

So the Ruger mp is actually good? Hmmm it looks horrible! No wonder LEO's dont use it! It is too intimidating to use! Well, i guess they do use AR's so they really dont care how intimidating it is. I think law enforement should switch completely over to Rugers! Then they would be set! Ruger has everything that LEO's need. Sub machine guns, Auto rifles, sniper rifles, semi pistols, revolvers, golf clubs. Now all they need  is a pump shotgun and they would be the perfect LEO weapon company. O wait, cant forget zip ties and billy clubs

NH_Hunter

LOL

NH_Hunter

The M-9 Beretta is just a secondary weapon for the military. The slide blows off the gun sometime after 5000 rounds. Beretta tried to remedy it by putting a cam in the frame so that the operator wouldn't be hit by the slide after it blew up. Beretta got the contract not because it was the best pistol, or because it was the less expensive, rather, their support package cost less than the next competitor. On the other hand, the SIG P-226 won all the trials. It's support package cost a little more and it's slide doesn't need to be exchanged until 15,000 rounds, and the frame is good for 45,000 rounds before it is exchanged for a new one. The Beretta is a logistical and maintenance nightmare. I know, anyone want to hazzard a guess why I know?

Any Ruger P-series will never get a military contract because they aren't worth the box that they are shipped in.

The MP-5 is the world standard where sub-machineguns are concerned. There isn't a better sub gun anywhere, I have shot them all. They empty their mags quickly, but they are easy to shoot and hit what you are aiming at. As far as the reload taking longer than the Colt's SMG, I suppose that it all boils down to where you keep your mags. Most MP-5 shooters usually carry their mags in pouches on their legs, I don't know where Colt's SMG gunners carry their mags.

The 9X19 MM cartridge was chosen because of it being readily available from any NATO country. It makes sense, but on a personal note, I like the .45. Another thing is that 9mm in a double stacked mag isn't too large for the average hand. Not that the 9MM is better, it's just that added firepower is more desireable. Bullet placement is what puts boogers down, not cartridge size. I believe it was Elmer Keith that said, "The bigger bullet works better most of the time." I own a Paraordanance P-14 as I am sure that a lot of guys in here do. I defy ANYONE except guys with HUGE hands to say that the P-14 is comfortable to hold. Then there is the US SOCOM offensive handgun from H&K. If ever there was a more accurate .45 ACP pistol out of the box, I have never seen one. Shooting it is a chore because of the weight. If you have one on your belt, you'd better be wearing suspenders, because it will pull your pants off. As far as quick draw with it, it can be done, but it takes a long time to learn. I was thinking of buying one but after handling several, I think I'd rather have another drink.........Kingpin

Yep, that's the Ruger subgun that I remember, they're about as handy as a whistle on a plow........Kingpin

Fella's;

I see, over on the www.hkpro.com board, that the airline pilots are being armed with H&K USP compacts.

900F

NH--thank you for the pic of the Ruger MP.  Looks like an Uzi with genetic issues.

We are limited to double action auto pistols (9mm, 40, and 45) and D/A revolvers (38/357) where I work.  My own preference would be a 1911A1 of some kind in 45 ACP or the Hi-Power in 40 S&W, but "When in Rome......"

The HK MP-5 may be the world standard, and they do fine until the mag runs dry.  Refills of any weapons system--rifle, pistol, SMG--don't seem to have the importance to European makers and weaponcraft doctrine that they do to North Americans users. 

Just my view here--user-friendliness in terms of refill capability is of high importance to me.  Most of the time, we operate in solo deputy patrol cars, and I work solo most of the time doing follow-up cases.  I want every possible advantage I can get in the system I carry, and the HK SMG just doesn't offer that.  In a team environment doing high-risk warrant services or SWAT-type assignments, that reload regimen might not be as critical an issue.  Since most SMG's are issued to "teams" and not individual users, perhaps I'm over-concerned with this element of their usage.    

Kingpin--

No offense taken, sir--as a range officer for my Station I see the same thing.  Handgun proficiency overall is ABYSMAL.......something like 90% of all cop rounds fired from handguns in engagements DO NOT HIT THE INTENDED TARGET.  This is the chief reason I laugh loudly at administrative types who worry so much about "over-penetration issues" with a given bullet design, but are seemingly unconcerned about 9 out of 10 rounds getting addressed "To Whom It May Concern". 

The MP-5 requires the bolt to be manually retracted and pivoted upward to lock, then manual removal of the empty magazine.  Some of the newer variants fall free, I understand.  Then you insert the filled magazine and manually release the charging handle to send the bolt home and charge the weapon.

Contrast this with the Colt system, where the bolt locks back, a button gets pushed by the trigger finger and the empty mag falls free assisted by follower spring tension while the operator is taking hold of a fresh magazine.  The magazine is set in place and the magazine hand hits the bolt release lever and the weapon is back in the game.  Just a more efficient system to me.

Granted--no system should EVER run dry in a firefight.  Still, setting a filled mag into a "closed bolt" Colt SMG takes a lot less force than with the HK MP-5.

That's why.  :-)

sluggo, are you referring to the SIG P-220?....Kingpin