What is precision reloading? Fess Up!

The key point is how much accuracy do you want.The following is very simplistic but the concept is sound.

If you shoot varmits with a 2 inch kill zone at ranges of 300 to 500 yards you need a rifle capable of .4 at 100.

If you want to kill large game with 6 to 12+ inch kill zones at under 200 yards your rifle need to be about 3.0 inches at 100.That's not much accuracy.Most rifles will shoot 2 out of the box and will take game with factory ammo.

I want better then .009(current world record at 100).I'll probably never achieve it,buts that what I chase when I aim down range.I sit at 0.052.I remember how long it took to break .100 consistently.(That's assuming theres no wind on comp days.)

1.5" at 1000. is also there to tantalize those fanatics of accuracy.

So if you hunt medium and large game under 200 yards don't get too  hung up after you get under 1 inch groups.If you want that 500 yards and up then you have to work for it.There are many blind alleys to go down like inside neck turning which can destroy neck tension completely.Failure to find neck concentricity,semi neck turning same result as Dakota said.Custom dies for custom tight necks,custom projectiles,higher quality reloading equipment, all give tiny improvements for BR fanatics but are of questionable use to a hunter.

Make your own call,(but buy a rem if accuracy really counts,sell the barrel and build a rifle designed to shoot .4 and under)

Macca

the bottom line is that there IS a big difference between accuracy and precision, and in order to get precision, someone is going to have to tinker with a rifle......and the ammo.

>>>All systems have stable area's and unstable area.  The best (and I mean best) designs enable large amounts of variance with small variations in the output.  So is it with well designed rifles.

    i.e.  Good guns designs aren't super sensitive to minor changes in ammo.  Or if that don't make sense... it's easy to find ammo that will group well in it.<<<

the above statement may hold true when discussing accuracy, but has absolutely no relavence when discussing precision.

getting back to the original topic, i would contend that real precision STARTS with consistency, but this is only a beginning. from there, a lot of true effort and specialization is required.

Dak,

    I'm gonna be a bit of a hard nose here.... 

Error's are additive.  If a feller can't hold the point of impact under an 2" circle then a gun that groups an inch will add on average .5" to his group equaling 2.5".  Take the same guy with a gun that groups inside of 2" and you get an average groups size of well then you get a 3" group.  Not that big of a deal on Elk but it wonds varmints instead of kill'n them.

   Tas....

   Um..  I won't be so hard on this one...   Accuracy and percision

Accuracy = accurate =

1. Conforming exactly to fact; errorless.
2. Deviating only slightly or within acceptable limits from a standard.
3. Capable of providing a correct reading or measurement: an accurate scale.
4. Acting or performing with care and precision; meticulous: an accurate proofreader.

Percision =

1. Clearly expressed or delineated; definite: The victim gave a precise description of the suspect.
2. Exact, as in performance, execution, or amount; accurate or correct: a precise measurement; a precise instrument.
3. Strictly distinguished from others; very: at that precise moment.
4. Distinct and correct in sound or meaning: precise pronunciation; precise prose.
5. Conforming strictly to rule or proper form: “The setting up of this Maypole was a lamentable spectacle to the precise separatists that lived at New Plymouth” (Thomas Morton).

Seeing this came from Webster.com.... um......

   So accuracy has to do with having little or no variation.  And Precise more the ability to be exact.  You have no idea how many people make the same statements about accuracy and percision.

    Percision has to do with how excat .01 vs. .001, vs. 0001 you can read.  Accuracy means how well you reach a standard once set.

  OK what the hell does that have to do with the statments I made about a stable system gun doesn't require as much "accuracy" different loads as does a semi stable gun... WELL, nothing really.

  There is a point however in the fact that if you can't be precise  then you can't predict trends or the effect of them.  HOWEVER, you really don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that if all ammo averages better performance in one rifle than another --- Fill in the blank (predictable results = confidence and that my friends is the difference).

Spot

Dak,

   You and Mountain are right for each person skills.... how much accuracy is enough.   For me under 300 off hand I hit within a two inch, if not a one inch of my aim point.

    Therefore... by my own standards the gun MUST group under 1" at 100yds for me to feel confident with the gun.  If it groups under .5" I'm extremely confident... Then I have that .25" or less single hole TIKKA!  I know where it's gonna hit.    

    Either way I like a gun that can take heat, cold, and differnt ammo and group pretty much the same .. with little variation even with those varying conditions.  Picky gun's are like picky women... They're a pain in the ass.

Spot 

I turn all my case necks. I've only really done much acuracy work on my .30-06 Ack. Imp. and my .300 Super Mag. Turning the necks and changing nothing else tightened the groups by about 30%. They both shoot in the 5/8 inch range at 100 if I do my part. They're both hunting rifles with regular taper barrels...not the kind you need a wheeled carriage to move around.

I weigh all my powder charges. Once in a while one does throw funny and the weight is off so I dump it back in the hopper and try again.

I'm starting to mess around with my .22-250 now in hopes of getting it varmint ready by April-May or so. I don't have a lot of time to shoot or reload any more because we're building a house but I squeeze in a little here or there while I'm drinking coffee. Sometimes I can take my brass, priming tool, and trimmer to work and set it up on my desk and do a 100 rounds or so inbetween other stuff.

I'm hopefull it's going to be a real shooter when I get things going. I got some 1/2" groups with factory loads off of the hood of my truck and a shooting bag at 109 yards (lasered it, too lazy to walk up and move it back). Of course it turned out the be the most expensive stuff I decided to try that flew that well. At least reloading I can save $$.

Glad ya think so dakotasin,

I think we covered a lot of ground in this thread.  Thanks to all the contributors.

Been a while since that thread was up.  As for what has changed in my technique.  Well, not a whole lot, honestly.  I still segregate my brass into lots based on times fired and not weight.  I always trim to within 0.002 in of specs.  Been building a database of case weights as they come from the factory (again, Winchester seems to have the least deviation from mean).  Actually, I suppose I'm focusing more on ballistic hunting advantage and trying some new bullets and powders.

My final take on it is this.  If I have an "accuracy rig" that was built or designed for highly accurate very sub-moa groups like long range, competition or varmint hunting, I'll check on putting forth the effort in neck uniformity, etc.  But if it's just my average hunting rifle I'll keep doing what I am currently doing and stick with that.  Of course, that can always change but that's the essence of what I'm confident in.