eureka: swede problem identified

thanks to bronco for making me go back and reconsider neck thickness, i believe i have identified the problem: my lee loader is squeezing neck diameter about .5mm smaller than a full-length sizing die of unidentified make.

lee was at fault here, but so was i for sticking with the loader for too long.

here is the story. .5mm is a whole bunch in the handloading realm, if you ask me. the measurement is crude because my little friction-fit "micrometer" (more like a macrometer) is crude. i bought years ago just to measure case length. but i tell ya, when a simple, crude instrument like that shows a difference of that amount, something is bad out of whack. i used the old eyeball trick, too, looking at how close to the ogive of a marked .264 bullet went into loader-sized necks and full-length-sized-mystery-die necks. there clearly is a measureable difference.

when i got the mostly sporterized swede, i got from its owner a passle of 6.5x55 brass: a whole lot of pmc, which i don't like from previous experience; 40 or so s@b brass; and 22 yugo nny brass. the nny brass had been partial-full-length resized by an unidentified brand of die. i can see the line where the sizing stopped exactly at the neck/shoulder juncture.

i had loaded three rounds of the nny over 44.0 grains of h414. (i remember now that the bullets went into those cases more easily than the loader-neck-sized ones. by the way, i have been using the loader to seat bullets as well.) there were absolutely no pressure signs on those cases. my notes (boy, am i glad i made good, inclusive notes on all the loads) showed perfect, slick extraction and picture-perfect primers.

all loader-sized cases showed pressure signs well before reaching that load weight.

now, mr. stupid here, who was so eager to start making loads, noticed that the lee case-length gauge was a very, very hard fit in loader sized cases (heck, it wouldn't even go into some of the cases). well, i figured lee must have left that one a little over-sized, so i turned it down by chucking it in a drill and holding it against flatmounted sandpaper. do you think i should turn this into an article about how even experienced handloaders can just flat go blindly stupid? i have burned up more than 70 hornady bullets and several ounces of powder dancing through this process, and risked injury on very moderate loads.

now then, to whom do i send the loader? midway, from whom i bought it? or directly to lee, who manufactured it? in 15-16 years of handloading, i have used a lot of lee products, and this is the first one that has failed. lots of lyman and rcbs dies have had problems, but never a lee product. lee obviously is at fault here, but so was i for sticking with the process for so long. but i figure i am out the cost of the dies ($9.98) shipping ($6 or so) and, oh, half the cost of the bullets (let's say $9).

thoughts, please. if you wish to beat me with a few well-chosen insults, please do so. i much merit them, but am ever so thankful that my Father was looking after me.   

i think i got your meaning, but just to make sure:

all of the OUTSIDE diameters were "within specs," but all of the INSIDE diameters were too tight?

if it were just one brand of brass, i would say that it is a problem with the brass, but if they are all doing it regardless of brand, then it looks like your conclusions are correct, from what i can see at least.

based on my experience, you might want to get a second (third?) opinion. my guess is that lee will make it right, if you give them a chance to do so.

tsunka:

the inside diameters of the loader-sized cases are about .5mm smaller than the inside diameters on full-length-sized cases, varying a tiny bit from case to case, brand to brand. the outside diameters are smaller in diameter by the same amount, varying a tiny bit from brand to brand, case to case. i wonder if the loader was reamed for a 6mm of some ilk and then miss stamped.

m'neer: a nice micrometer is very high on my list of future tools. 

First, I'm no fan of Lee.  I've had too many out of tolerance stuff from them.

But, if I understand correctly you are using three different brands of cases that you got with the rifle.  If that is the situation I'd say...STOP.  Throw all of it away, and buy some unfired US quality cases (or Norma or Lapua).  You don't know where that other stuff has been.  You don't seem to have high quality measuring tools.  It could be that the necks are thick from prior hot loadings.  It is never enough to measure just the outside or the outside of a case neck.  As an example, the outside may be in spec after sizing, but a thick case neck will cause the outside neck to expand when a bullet is seated.  Result is an oversized loaded neck which can pinch the bullet when chambered, causing high pressures with what would be normal powder loadings.

Junk the Lee dies/reloader.  Junk the old unknown cases.  Start fresh, and don't load powder till you have the case dimensions within standards.

Just thoughts...be safe...good luck.

BEAR

-If you like it straight from the hip here it is.

It makes no difference in peak pressure what the die does to the neck! If you can put a bullet in a fired case neck, there is no problem. If you can't get a bullet in a fired case neck you have brass that is too thick in the neck area. The key here is not what the inside ID is, its if the case neck with bullet seated, OD is no larger than the chamber neck you are fine.

Dan

"were too tight for me to insert the un-modified case length gauge."

Explain to me what the case length gauge is telling you?

Dan

dan -

if i am reading your correctly (and i might not be), then fish is in essence using his bullet as a case-mouth expander, and seating the bullet is going to expand the mouth enough to hold the bullet anyway?

i don't have my book with me, and could very well be wrong, but i remember reading about this. if i remember correctly doing so will cause pressure or run-out problems?

Send me a PM with your phone number and I'll call you. I don't want you to blow yourself up with this deal.

Dan