Bear Pistol

Fella's;

I'm looking for some thoughts on what would constitute a good bear pistol.  Considering the conditions that I'd expect to use it in, ie on foot & hiking, I'm almost certainly going to get a revolver.  After reading the .500 S&W thread, it's almost certainly not going to be an X frame Smith.

The two leading candidates in my thoughts have been the S&W mountain gun in .44 mag and the Freedom Arms 5.5" in .454 Casull.  I realize that I could buy 3 used S&W's for the cost of 1 new Freedom Arms, but so far, I'm just thinking.  Who know's I could hit the lottery!  Yeah - right.

However, the Taurus 4" stainless .45 LC that Dan Walker has been playing around with has gotten my attention too.

I've been in reach out with the fly rod & touch him range of a wild bear.  That was many years ago.  After that incident I put my money down on a .357 Blackhawk.  Lately though, I've just taken my normal carry gun.  That's an H&K USPc in .40 loaded with 180 gr Winchester SXT's, good round.

Having 'been there' once, I have NO intention of being there again if I can possibly help it.  I also know that it can happen with the best of precautions.  Since I'm getting older & may have slowed down a step or two, I've been considering getting some heavier artillery.

What are your thoughts?

900F

CB,

I'd like to help.  but need to know two things.

1) are we talking Black bears, or Brown/griz???

2) are you going to hunt them or merely for protection from a bear attack????

BEAR

Bear;

Protection only for the pistol.  We are  talking griz/black.  The one I met in the '70's was a griz. 

900F

In the past I have used Hornady double thick jacket that is rolled into the lead.  Lead is level 4 hardness, also the tracker is ported so she jumps only about 4 to 5 inches when shot.  4" barrel so you can tuck it under there chin.

   A smith friend of mine told me it was best to file off the front site if you intend to use a pistol for bear defense.  That way when you pull it out of your back end (cause that's where the bears gonna shove it) it won't hurt as much.

Spot

CB900F,

Here are my thoughts on what make a good bear gun for protection purposes.

First off, it has to ne relatively light weight.  At least light enough that you will be willing to carry it ALL THE TIME in the back country or where ever there may be a chance encounter.

Second, it needs to provide enough penetration to get the job done which is determined by the biggest critter that may live in your area.  This is a tricky thing because a stout 357 Mag such as the Ruger BHawks can be loaded with 200 gr WLNGC bullet to well over 1200 fps and they will penetrate very well.  This brings up poit three.

Should be as powerful a round as you can shoot accurately and quickly if a second, third, four, fifth, sixth or well your dead or really hurt after that.

There are many rounds and handguns that will cover these three things well.  I personally like the 4 5/8" Ruger stainless blackhawks.  Like I said earlier, a hot loaded 357 in one of these will penetrate enough for any bear in the lower 48 and probably any bear period with a good shot to the central nervous system.

Being that as it may, I would only recommend this combo to those that are a bit recoil shy, which should never be misread as being weak or a wimp, has nothing to do with it.  Anyone that can shoot a Ruger 357 accurately loaded with a stout 180 to 200 gr bullet can easily kill a bear if needed.  Hitting the damn thing in the proper spot is far more important then the number of ft/lbs the bear is hit WITH. 

Personally, I would recommend the 44 Mag class as a good place to start.  It should be loaded only with premium hard cast bullets which by the way do not need to be loaded to forhead burning levels.  The key for this type of revolver is penetration, there for use heavy bullets.  These would be +180gr in 357, +250gr in 41, +300gr in 44, +330 gr in 45(colt/Ruger), +360 gr in 454 and +400 gr in 480/475 class rounds. 

NO JACKETED BULLETS EVER!!!

My personal carry gun for this specific job is a 4 5/8" Stainless Ruger in 45 Colt loaded with the awsome CPB 360 gr WFNGC over a heavy charge of H-110 and lit with a CCI 350.  This load hits 1200 fps and will penetrate anything I need it to here in Montana, including all of the big game, elk, moose, bison and grizzly if needed.

Its recoil is very quick but controlable and the revolver itself is quite light and easy to carry.  The stainless steel helps control corrosion since it is worn all the time when it is used.

Again, I would like to stress that these rounds do not need to be loaded to full tilt magnum levels to work very well. 

If I were buying a revolver now for this purpose, I would take a hard look at the Taurus Raging Bull in 480 with the 5" ported barrel.  It is relatively light and with the proper bullet, +400 gr cast, it would be a hell of a hammer in a light controlable package.

I have a Ruger SRH in 480 Ruger and shoot the 425 gr WFNGC from CPB at 1175 fps.  I have always been amazed with its performance and penetration on game animals.  The Raging Bull could not be loaded quite this hot, but 1100 fps would be comfortable and I would expect pretty easy on the gun as well.

Alot of experienced woodsmen say that a double action is better then a single action for this purpose and I could not argue that point.  For quick follow up shots the double action would win hands down, but for safety, reliablility and brute strength, I like the single actions.

So after all that here is what I would recommend:

Either

Ruger 4 5/8" stainless blackhawk in 45 Colt loaded with +330 gr cast bullets driven to at least 1100 fps

0r

Raging bull 5" stainless in 480 Ruger loaded with +400 gr cast bullets driven to at least 1000 fps.

Both these are light and easy to carry.  They are still big revolvers but we are trying to stop a bear from either killing us or beating us up real bad so leave the little single six's at home.

Both these loads and bullets will easily penetrate a bear through its vitals and yes, the modern cast bullets such as those from CPB will penetrate a grizzlies skull from any angle to this would be a viable target to stop a bear, it would be hard as hell to hit but if you did hit the skull in line with the brain, it would be game over with both of these rounds.

Just my thoughts,

Good Shooting!!!

50

This last season, a 400 lb black bear was taken near here (in Arkansas) and there is one weighing about 200-250 lbs that prowls the valley where I live -- I've seen him often enough (but not during bear season, darn it!) to give him a name -- Baumgarten.

One day, Baungarten and I are going to meet at close range.  That's why I carry a .45 Colt in the woods.

Fella's;

Thanks for the answers & thoughts.  I'll clarify some of my own data from points that have been raised.

Recoil:  Shooting 125gr 1450 fps combat loads out of a Ruger SP101 doesn't bother me.  Not that I'll do it for pleasure mind you, but running a 20 round chrono string isn't at all out of the question.

I & my family hike & camp & have for years.  I'd like to think I'm no stranger in the Rocky Mtn. back country.

The reason I have a Dillon RL550B is because I shoot enough pistol to justify owning one. 

I've not yet personally met anyone who has, first person, reported a successfull  bear defence using pepper spray.  I have met people who have successfully defended themselves with handguns.

I carry all the time.

900F