686 load development

Dak, If you were using very light loads the primer may have been flashing across the top of the powder charge which has settled along the bottom side of the case when held horizontally. This leads to very poor or no ignition thus all the unburned powder. I had a friend who experienced this with light loads in a .454 Casull. In fact the powder didn't light at all but evidently the primer popped the bullet into the throat of the barrel. Having double hearing protection (muffs over plugs) on he didn't hear the primer pop. Recoil on the next round was massive. When he opened the cylinder he had two empty cases and a whole bunch of unburned powder. Remarkably the gun wasn't damaged. He now uses .45 colt cases for his light loads. 

As far as the sight issue. I know that I have to be very consistant in my grip on some handguns including placement of my trigger finger or I have windage problems. Although sloppiness usually makes me shoot to the right. Having exceptionally big paws doesn't help either. RD

 

Edited by Rockydog

Dakotasin;

Incomplete ignition.  Powder still burning as the bullet leaves the barrel.  A lot of times a heavier crimp will also help with this if you want to continue using that powder with lighter loads.  Frankly, I wouldn't, I'd rather find another powder.  Crimp can materialy affect burn rate & accuracy in revolver loads.  A heavy crimp can hold the bullet in the case just long enough for complete ignition to commence & proceed with all powder burned just as the bullet leaves the barrel.

A sure sign of overdriving lead bullets is shaving.  The pressure expands the base of the bullet to fill the diameter of the cylinder & further expands it in the gap.  Then the barrel shaves off the expanded base.  Typically, you get little shavings that look sorta like fingernail clippings, or lunettes.

An alternative powder you might wish to try would be Blue Dot.

900F

I'm with Bear and using Unique, mine are around 9gr. If using .38 brass I use 3.5 Bullseye and cast 158 and 148 bullets respectivly.
I use 2400 only for max loads both in .357 and .44 mag. And that's with jacketed bullets.
As for Blue Dot I haven't tried it much with light loads but the ones I have tried smoked a lot more than 2400 and it leaves a lot of residue. I sure love the smell though, if only I could find my wife some Blue Dot scented candles. I hate that potpouri crap she burns around the house.
DD

Edited by deaddog

Fella's;

I wasn't really suggesting Blue Dot for light loads.  I use it for heavier loads.  In fact, for my plinker loads, I use 700X.

900F

ok, fellas...
using 2400 and starting at 13.8 w/ a 158 lead swc, i worked up to 16.2 grains. start velocity was 1179 f/s, and at 16.2, i got 1454 f/s. this is all the velocity i can get out of this combination. working up in .2 gr increments, once i reached 1400 f/s, it was near impossible to break thru that. usually, .2 grains corresponded w/ ~30 f/s increase, but once i hit 1400, .8 grains of powder yielded about 12 f/s. once i got thru that, i got fairly wild swings in velocity. i have no doubt a longer barrel would perform much better, but out of a 4" revolver, 1400 f/s is about all that's available.

here's the cut-n-copy from my spreadsheet:

Bullet weight:		158	grains
Velocity:		1409	feet per second
Energy:		695.8	foot/pounds
Power factor:		222.6
Grains of Powder per Load:		15.6
Loads per Pound:		448.7
Pounds Needed per 500:		1.1

after working this load up, i doubt a 180 grain bullet would work well, but i think i'm going to try one, anyway. i'd like to achieve somewhere around 725 - 750 pounds of energy... but, if 695 is all that the 4" 357 can offer, then that's all there is. i have considered running h-110 and seeing what happens there, but that might work well only w/ 180's...

thoughts?

the bullets are oregon trail laser cast - 'guaranteed not to lead your barrel'.

as far as velocity goes, i have no idea if thats fast, slow, or about right - its just what it is. at the upper end of my powder charges, i was getting 1450-ish f/s, but the accuracy wasn't there, and the loads were erratic.

i want to spend some more time over the chrony though, and see if there might be something more to be extracted from this load, accuracy-wise. it isn't bad, it just isn't as good as i was hoping for. also think i'll try some 180's... i think the 4" barrel coupled w/ the cylinder gap really means i have about everything i can get, but we'll see...

Edited by dakotasin

thanks for the thoughts... handgun hunting and surely cast bullets are new territory to me, so i don't know for sure what's needed. i do know that many of the 'common' handgun calibers (including 357 mag) are noted for penetration troubles. thus, the experimentation w/ hard cast. the energy figures are more to track potential than to determine expected performance.

overall, i'm satisfied w/ this load. i have confidence in it, and accuracy, at least thus far, appears to be on-par w/ my standards for big game hunting. it would sure be nice to be able to use the gun for hunting in a pinch - much easier to tote than a rifle, and there are times when a quick hunting opportunity arises, but no rifle at hand... the 686 is always at hand, so it might work out.

i have no data for h-110 and 158's, though. so if you are privy to such data, please share. i believe some/all of my manuals have h-110 and 180's data, though.

dakotasin wrote: i have no data for h-110 and 158's, though. so if you are privy to such data, please share. i believe some/all of my manuals have h-110 and 180's data, though.

This is from the two sources I've got with H110 and a 158 gr. bullet :

Hornady #5 - Colt Python; 8" barrel

• START : 12.7 grs. - 1000 fps
• MAX    : 15.6 grs. - 1250 fps

Hodgdon 2002 Annual - 10" barrel

• START : 15.0 grs. - 1418 fps
• MAX    : 16.7 grs. - 1591 fps

Hornady load seems aweful mild, but that's what they've printed.  Later.  >>  klallen