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What Scope For Gophers

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    Posted: 09 June 2016 at 03:01
Folks, I'm in the process of gearing up for a considered trip next year to maybe, hopefully, attend and participate with much glee and enthusiasm, regardless of weather conditions, sort-a, in the MYGAWDS 2017. As the subj says, "what scope for gophers" ought I hang my 22LR onto for this much vaunted spectacle, and exercise in mass fun. I'm led down the garden path to understand in participation of said event, one should anticipate squeezing out all of the 22LR's effective range at little minions about 2.5" across on a fat day. All of my current choices for presently owed 22LR platforms, are garnished with nothing above a 12x, various at 9x,4x, and one at 2X, and most with a plain plex type reticle. I have been informed by apparently knowledgeable representatives of this establishment, that one can find some very useful aids in this style hunting by going with a Mil-dot reticle. Something about sub-tending or other. So I've determined to maybe find me another rifle scope to mount on no particular 22LR I currently own, for the specific purpose of shooting at gophers within all possible ranges, maybe even hitting some too. I would like to hear from the peanut gallery as what recommendations might be floating around out there for this scope I hope to settle on. I have a few restrictions though.

1. Under $400
2. Not too big
3. Not Chinese
4. Sturdy
5. Multi-coated glass
6. Reasonable eye relief (not less than 3")
7. Fixed or variable ok, but needs to allow shots inside of 50yrds as well as 100.
8. Wtr proof

I'm fine with a good used glass. So what say you all, any strong opinions on this? If so, I'd appreciate hearing them, with rational on your suggestion.

Edited by Goatlocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deaddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 07:28
To be clear I am an antagonist here not a site representative. I have
been a FFL dealer for over a decade. This has allowed me to see and
use
optics that I would never buy or afford on my own. Night Force"
Sworovski, Steiner, Leatherwood, Schmidt & Bender, Leica, etc. I have
a small niche high end clientele that think nothing of dropping $3000 on
glass. Some people may get the opportunity to peek through one inside
a Cabela's or someplace like that? Unless you've had a chance to use
glass like that out in the wild you don't know what you are missing. That
said I rarely recommend something specific. I believe I was partially
misquoted as to specifying mil-dots. I said "mil-dots or your preferred
hold over increment of choice". Nikon and Shepherd have open circles.
Burris has stadia lines or plex etc. Some reticles are too busy and you
can't see small targets through the clutter. Then you have to decide if
you prefer front or rear focal plane. This concludes today's diatribe.

TLDR: Leupold VX2


DD

Edited by deaddog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 11:35
Thanks DD. Didn't mean to quote you, I was rolling together the input fm various sources. I agree with you about how upper end optics take things to new levels hard to appreciate without experiencing in the field. I'm a big fan of Leica, Zeiss and Sworo. I sunk a small fortune in my 10X42 Leicas, and 8X20 Zeiss binos some years ago, have never regretted it one bit. My center fires generally get glass that runs as much as the rifle or more. My rim-fires get a lot more experimental stuff, but I have learned to steer away from the bargain basement glass, even for the little rifles. I much prefer to hunt for a deal on a good conditioned second hand mid-grade scope than a new low grade scope to go on my small game arms. I have a Nikon Monarch 4-12X AO with the BDC reticle on one rimfire that I imagine might fit the bill nicely. It's parked on a 17 Mach2 which I don't really want to tamper with since it's such a good set up already.

Edited by Goatlocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 12:32
Goatlocker;

As stated, the glass on my primary gopher gun is a now
out of production Nikon Monarch 3.3-10X A/O mil-dot.
When it was in production, say 10 years ago, it was
three-hundred-something glass. I have no plans to change
it out & even bought a second one from Midway when Nikon
dropped production. Midway basically sold them for cost
I think.

I'm a big fan of the second plane mil-dot reticle. It's
not too busy & lets you make adjustments for both windage
and elevation. I did buy a Nikon with their BDC reticle,
used it once & sold it. Bought another Nikon with the
mil-dots. I'm good with using a 10X top end
magnification scope, but if somebody wanted one at 12X,
or anything up to 16X, I'd have no problem with those
choices.

The major problem with your list is the $400.00 cap & no
Chinese manufacture. That's getting to be an almost
impossible set of constraints as the dollar continues to
tank. If you weren't aware of it, the Leupold tactical
line is where you find mil-dot scopes from them. There's
one huge problem with them to my mind. That's that the
elevation adjustments are in .5" increments, not .25".
Although that may have changed since the last time I
checked.

If I were looking these days, probably the first place
I'd look is Vortex. If Weaver would ever get their head
outta someplace dark & warm, they'd offer the mil-dot
reticle on their classic V series scopes. As it is, I
think you can still get a Weaver tactical 10X mil-dot
from Midway for around $400.00. What I don't know is if
it's an A/O of some type.

900F

Edited by CB900F
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 13:24
Originally posted by deaddog deaddog wrote:

To be clear I am an antagonist here not a site representative.
DD

Hmm, does that mean you stay away from beans?

Originally posted by CB900F CB900F wrote:


The major problem with your list is the $400.00 cap & no
Chinese manufacture. That's getting to be an almost
impossible set of constraints as the dollar continues to
tank. 900F


Yea I know that's certainly a speed bump for new scopes, I'm watching out for a good used one too though. What did you find disagreeable with the BDC?
I have my eye on a good used MK2 Leupold with LR reticle, but didn't know about the .5" elev adj. I'm also watching a good used Monarch with Mil-Dot.

Edited by Goatlocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deaddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 13:55
My price on a new Leupold Mark AR 3-9x40 mod 1 P5 mil dot matte
black is
less than $300.

DD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 15:11
Just thoughts.

I like your criteria.

I have a Bushnel Elite (no longer made). But if I was getting
an other "Gopher Scope", I'd certainly consider:
Bushnell Elite Tactical LRS Rifle Scope 5-15x 40mm Adjustable
Objective Mil-Dot Reticle-- less than $400.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 15:43
Goatlocker;

I have two objections to the Nikon BDC reticle.
1. The little circles are only registered to one
velocity & B/C, therefore they aren't precise enough for
another ammo.
2. If you want "area suppression" then the circle is
fine, but if you want to come as close as you can to one-
holing multiple shots, you haven't got a single point to
put on the target.

Or: Several of my hunting guns have the Zeiss Conquest
3.5-10X with the Zeiss #43 reticle, which is a mil-dot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2016 at 16:32
I have three of these, very good glass, for fair price.
http://www.samplelist.com/SWFA-SS-20x42-Tactical-Riflescope- DEMO-A-P96990.aspx
Might be a might much for 22 though, it would let you pick the eye to shoot.
I wait for Black Friday special, every year and pick up one. They include rings and level for $260 or so.
NRA Benefactor Life, GOA Patriot, SAF   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2016 at 03:17
is that the Tasco branded SWFA?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2016 at 07:22
I was all set on a nice second hand Leopold MK2 4-12X AO LR, but 900F's comment about the elevation/windage adj increments caused me to pause and re-evaluate. I hadn't realized these adjustments were that rough on this scope, and after some thought have stepped away from that model. All my Leopold's have either 1/8", 1/4" clicks or are non-click type. Even the cheaper made scopes I have are at least 1/4" increments. Don't want to try something I can't dial in closer than 1/2" @100yrds.

You know, these ranging aim points on reticles aren't needed so much when one uses the flat shooting 17 rimfires vs 22LR, that's why I've been using my 17's for the longer range stuff, so I don't have to play the archery game. Before the 17 rimfires, I just never had a use for shooting 22LR out to and beyond 100 yrds. That's why I haven't been down this road already with scopes for any of my 22s. Anyways, I could also go with a traditional reticle on a scope with reliable return to zero windage/elevation adjustments, practice the range distances, and adjust scope to known ranges, with aid of laser range finder. Would be a slower reaction time system though if targets are popping up fast and various distances.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2016 at 10:23
Goatlocker;

Check the Loopy site, maybe they've seen the light &
changed. Doubt it, but you never know.

I can tell you that I was hopping mad when I bought my
Leupold mil-dot & found that out after the fact!
According to the Loopy service rep I spoke with, I had no
business putting a mil-dot scope on a hunting gun. OTOH,
for all their rep about being a$$hole Germans, I've
always been treated very well by Zeiss.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2016 at 12:43
I checked with the specific scope I was looking to buy. It's .5 increments on both windage and elevation. What the heck?!

Hey DD, can you tell me what is currently available in the Leopold line that is comparable to scopes previously marketed as VX-III? How does the MK AR you mentioned above compare to the VX-III lines of the past in terms of glass/coating, erector sys? I realize the MK AR is a new breed with diff knobs, but how does it compare in quality build and glass to those VX-III's? I imagine it's more on par to the VX-II or VX-I.

I'm considering sending one of my older VX-III Leopolds back for them to retrofit a Mil-dot or LR reticle. That's about a $160 service.

Edited by Goatlocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deaddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2016 at 23:59
The new VX-2 is close to the old VX-lll. 1/4" clicks and noticeably
brighter than a VX-ll. I just sold a VX-2 last week. 3-9x40 LR reticle.
Very nice scope. I had a LR at MYGAWDS one year. It worked fine but I
was limited to about 160yds. If I recall I was sighted in at 50, first dot
80, second 110, and the top of the post 160?

They have a ne reticle called the LRV. It is supposed to be better for
varmints. It used thin lines instead of the dots on the LR.

The AR mod has 1/10 mil clicks and external dials. I have no personal
experience with this one.

The .17 is a better choice for prairie dogs but I believe the .22 is the
proper medicine for gophers. 1500+ rounds of .17 in a weekend would
be upwards of $300. .22's are bad enough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2016 at 04:06
DD, I'm familiar with the LRV reticle. I have one in a VarX-III 6.5-20X LR scope on my .204Ruger. I like the idea of using the regular LR reticle for this purpose, and I expect 160 yrds would be plenty long for me.

How would you compare the brightness btwn the current VX-2, and the MK AR in same pwr range?

Edited by Goatlocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deaddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2016 at 07:23
I don't know but the AR will probably be my next optics purchase.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2016 at 00:55
Well, I picked up a good used Sightron Big Sky 3-12X42 with their hunter hold over reticle. Paid $275 for it which I think is a fair price, not great, but fair considering the quality of the glass and erecter system on those. I think it will serve the purpose intended. Now I just need to decide which 22LR to mount it on. Hmmm...The CZ 452FS has a real light trigger, is a great shooter, and is still unsettled on a scope, this might be a good place to start some long range shooting from.

Edited by Goatlocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2016 at 01:46
Any CZ witha fs (full stock) has got to be great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2016 at 03:31
Goatlocker;

It may be a trick to get that scope on the fullstock.
The options are to:
1. Get lucky on the various mounting constraints, ie.
the fullstock's rear sight, both objective and ocular
bell, and the CZ high bolt lift.

2. Remove the rear sight blade.

3. Go to step-ladder rings & forget cheek weld

4. Put it on a 452/5 American.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2016 at 04:09
Found this gopher rig and it needs a good scope too!

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-vespa-was-designed-to-ta ke-on-tanks-2014-11


...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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