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What a disappointment my JOC has been

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Tenring View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tenring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What a disappointment my JOC has been
    Posted: 14 February 2014 at 10:19
I really hate to complain and I am not one to post all
that often on here but I do enjoy reading all the posts,
information, tidbits, and reviews. I have learned from a
lot of other people’s mistakes who were good enough to
post their troubles on here so I wouldn't have to make
the same mistakes that they did. So here goes, I sold off
a substantial portion of my Winchester M70 collection as
well as some Brownings, a T/C Pro-Hunter package and even
an old Savage 110G holdover from the early 90's. I did
this to free up some room and empty and remove one of my
safes and replace the pieces sold with 5 or 6 higher
grade guns. Well the first 3 were Kimbers, a pair of 8400
WSM's in 270 and 300 and a Varmint 84M in 22-250. The
next purchase was a beautiful Winchester Model 70 Jack
O'Connor Custom Tribute purchased via Gunbroker and the
JOC has been a huge disappointment. I purchased it back
in December and still haven't shot it because the stock
remains in Morgan Utah awaiting repair or resolution. The
checkering was horrible, soft, and felt more like velvet
in most places than checkering. You could run a kleenex
down every inch and never leave any evidence of the
tissue in the checkering. The metal butt plate overhung
on both sides of the rifle butt and about a quarter inch
over the toe of the stock. The barrel was not floated and
paper would only make it about 6 inches or so under
barrel before being stopped abruptly by wood to metal
contact. The ebony forend was about 1/16 an inch higher
than the walnut under the forearm and there were 2
distinct ridges/high spots in the forearm where the stock
was machined or shaped. I guess I could have sent it back
to the dealer but to be honest, I didn't give it a real
good inspection when I was doing the FFL transfer because
the counters were crowded and I feared damaging the gun
before it ever made it to the field. I found this all
when I got home and disassembled the gun for cleaning,
called Winchester the next morning and sent the stock
back. I called for an update and I am now told it may be
well into the summer before the stock gets back to me,
provided they can fix the flaws. I told them that there
is no chance that I want a replacement stock because I
paid almost the full MSRP because the wood looked as it
did in the pictures on Gunbroker. So, 2500$ and nearing 2
months later I have no centerpiece for my new collection.
I did get another beautiful Kimber 8400 WSM in Stainless
with an AA French Walnut stock and paid half of what I
did for the JOC Custom Tribute. I know The JOC is not a
5000$ Custom Shop gun but it is a very expensive rifle
and I certainly had hoped for a lot more from Winchester
than what I received. I really wanted the gun because I
am such an avid fan of all of Mr. O'Connor's work, and
have been since my youth. Had he been handed that gun
from Winchester, history may have been written
differently and Remington or Savage may have become "The
Rifleman's Rifle". OK, off my soapbox for now and thanks
for letting me rant a little. I know Winchester can make
this right but I also know it won't be easy and I hope
they are willing to put in the effort to make the gun
look and handle as it should. By the way, the gun comes
with a free "custom embroidered case from the Jack
O'Connor Heritage Center" (as described in the
advertising) and the case arrived with Lewiston, Idaho
misspelled (Lewision) and the tags inside indicate that
the case is actually made in China from material produced
in China and has the BOYT name impressed in the fake
leather tippet. Now I am hearing from other JOC Custom
Tribute owners and there are some other sad cases of poor
production with this custom tribute. I did get to hear
from one yahoo who purchased the less expensive version
and took exception to me printing my displeasure with the
gun. He apparently was some type of brand loyalist
crackpot or maybe he worked for Winchester but he
certainly took exception to me publicly discussing flaws
with my gun and sent several PM's on another site trying
to get me to remove my posts and became quite the idiot
and exposed his true character when I refused to be
shushed. So there it is, and the saga continues. I'll
make sure to post the end results and I certainly hope to
post how happy I am with Winchester and their great
customer service and that everything turned out great in
the end and I have a perfect JOC Custom Tribute rifle. We
shall see.


Edited by Tenring
Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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BEAR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2014 at 11:35
tough to buy a gun that is not in your hands or that of a friend. pics don't tell the entire story.
hope it works out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2014 at 12:38

Tenring;

If you paid for it by credit card, you may have some recourse through them, depends on the card I think.  But, too much time may have elapsed also.  In any case I'd sure let your card company know about it if you used one.

900F

Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Tenring View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tenring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2014 at 16:55
Checked online and the new estimated date of repair is
the first week of May. Winchester/Browning has a nice
little site where you can go and check the status of the
repairs, According to the site, the buttplate has been
reshaped, fitted and replaced, the irregularities
removed, the forend fitted and shaped and now awaits
final checkering and refinishing. This gives me
confidence because at least they acknowledged the need
for repairs and are attempting to do what they can to
make it right. I hate having to wait almost 5 months but
if it comes back the way I hope it does, it will be worth
the wait. Good on Winchester for making it easy for us to
track our repairs online and not having to stay on hold
to wait to talk to someone. I'll keep you guys posted!
Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2014 at 00:34
wish you luck. As you know the Winchester brand is now just a license to have guns that are made by the Japanese sold in this country as Winchester.

Not sure how they rechecker? Maybe they just 'refresh'. Be sure to tell us how it turns out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2014 at 02:37

BEAR;

Has something changed?  Last I knew the Winchester name was leased from Olin by FN & the manufacture of the guns remained in the U.S. at a plant in South Carolina I think.  The model 70's at any rate.  Olin still owns the Winchester name outright & does control the manufacture of the ammunition sold under that name.

Now it's true that Browning, which is also owned by FN, makes no guns.  They are all sourced throughout the world & made by whomever FN/Browning wants to have them made by.  Miroku of Japan is a major Browning provider.  But there are other sources.  For instance, if you buy a new Browning Hi-Power pistol, it will say it's made in Portugul.

900F

Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2014 at 03:50

Thats interesting 900f,

I guess I would a lot rather have a Browning made in Japan by Miroku than one made in a chineese sweat shop by an 8 year old machinest.

Miroku seems to do a decent job of making firearms. But when they start using the lowest bidder, it might not be so good.

Wing master

I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2014 at 06:02

Gosh - There are morals in this story:

1) I've read many real good reviews of the JOC tribute rifle. This is the 3rd time I've read of a JOC with really poor workmanship.  I really like M70 Winchesters, but I'll never buy a JOC w/o seeing/handling it firsthand.

2) Long ago and far away, I ordered a Browning O/U that had some fine cracks in the stock.  Dealer returned the gun to Browning for repairs/replacement.  5 Months latter it came back with one of the best fit/looking stocks I ever saw on that model.  My patients was put to the test, but in the end was well worth the wait.

Ray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2014 at 07:44

Fella's;

I've got a Miroku Browning T-bolt that I bought a couple of years ago for some petty good money, over $650.00 if I remember correctly.  It's, of course, a left hand target/varmint in .22 magnum & one of the very few LH guns available in that caliber.

Accuracy has never been it's strong point however.  A good portion of that is due to the fact that there's an extremely limited supply of .22 magnum ammo even in the best of times.  If you do a comparison of the .22 magnum supply against .22lr, it's got to run about 25:1 in the favor of the long rifle as far as brands & variants within a brand go.  But, the trigger on the T-bolt sucked, which obviously affects accuracy also. 

I researched the trigger problem & found that there wasn't a whole bunch of information on it.  What I did find was on the Rimfire Central site, & did help.  Basically, the trigger group is plastic & sealed to prevent anybody from working on it.  There's a security tape that if broken or removed, will void the warranty.  Many gunsmiths will not touch one.  I, however, am stupider & did.

Upon opening the trigger group housing, it's easy to see that the engineering is like nothing normally seen for trigger groups.  On the up side, it's easy to see how it works.  Therefore, it's also pretty easy to see what needs to be changed.  I wound a new spring & installed it, but haven't had a chance to go to the range & see if it's going to turn a so-so shooter into a good gun or not.  Using a smaller diameter spring wire, and winding it with one less coil, gave me a trigger pull of 4.2 lbs with no creep or grittiness.  It's also very consistent, varying only .2 lb from pull to pull over 6 tests.  You can imagine what the trigger pull was like before. 

900F

Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2014 at 12:59

If I am not mistaken, Miroku makes the Howa 1500 thats the same as the Smith&Wesson 1500 and the Weatherby Vanguard. I have a weatherby Vanguard that I bought because I heard they were decent rifles. I figured it would be good if I dropped it on a rock or let it get wet, but didnt have much expectations for it.

About the second load I tried shot a 3 shot group that was all touching. I usually shoot 5 shot groups but knew I would pull at least one of the last 2 shots so I moved to another target. It will consistantly shoot 1/2 inch groups.

This turned into my "go to" rifle for big game. I still don't worry if I drop it onto a rock and I have hunted in several rain and snow storms with it.

It kinda grew on me.

Wing master

I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tenring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2014 at 04:50
My Jack O'Connor Model 70 Custom Tribute was due back on
the 8th of May. Another call this morning to
Browning/WInchester service center yielded nothing other
than "it should be done any day now". Still very
disappointed. This all started last year. Really wish
Kimber would have made a Jack O'Connor tribute and I would
be shooting it today.
Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2014 at 15:48

Tenring;

I don't know what to say.  Your experience has been pretty lousy it seems, although, so far, FN/Winchester produces rumors that they're going to make it good by you.  However, you might send them a polite note stating that given the time it's been, it's obvious that their warranty rectification department has been overwhelmed.  A sympathetic tone suggesting that if quality control were improved, the warranty department might not be experiencing the defections of personnel, nervous breakdowns, and rather more serious complications that are apparantly evident.

A modest suggestion that "The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves" posters in the workplace might not be producing the results desired could possibly work wonders too.

900F 

Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2014 at 02:27
So diplimatic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2014 at 09:37
Or you could send my ex-wives there to put some smack down on them?


...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tenring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2014 at 15:26
I just want my gun back, the way it should be and worth
what I paid for it.
Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2014 at 03:03
I feel for you man.......Hate it when companies screw you around forever before giving you what you should have gotten from them in the first place. It's a poor business practice.
...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2014 at 04:12
tuff to buy a "special anything" and have it come up way short of promises and expectations as your JOC rifle did. Wonder how it ever left the factory. Sure hope it comes back as it should be and soon. Was it a Miroko made gun?  I may have missed that if you said so in an earlier post. I think Miroko has a good rep for quality workmanship. Boyt stuff is not really inexpensive so I wonder what it would cost IF made in the USA vs China as your case was made?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2014 at 01:37
That sucks about your rifle mate... is it back yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tenring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2014 at 14:05
I got the rifle back last week and couldn't be more
disappointed. The metalwork was nearly perfect but
everything else leaves a lot to be desired. The
checkering was pitiful and the outline on the checkering
is just a disgrace. I posted some pictures on another
site and I'll try to post a couple on here. I'll never
buy another Winchester via Gunbroker, or likely from
anywhere else for that matter. I still haven't shot it
out of fear that it may be just as big a lemon in the
performance department as it is in the fit, finish, and
workmanship. I could have just bought another Weatherby
or another Kimber CLassic Select for half of what I paid
and certainly would have more than what I have today. Too
bad I am such an O'Connor fan or I never would have been
interested in the first place. If Jack was still around
he would demand that his name come off this rifle
immediately.31_200500_3.jpg">



Edited by Tenring
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2014 at 15:51

As winchester was going down the last 20 years of its life, they tried to make money by selling "collectable" or "commerative" rifles.  basically they were just production guns with a glued on coin or lazer carved picture.  I looked at a lot of them over the years (Texas Rangers, John Wayne, etc.   needless to say I was never impressed and never understood how they were sold.  a few friends have them and they tell me they are worth many times what they paid for it.  I don't see those guns selling at gun shows for great money.

Sorry to hear of your disappointment; peddle it and move on.  the Kimber Classic Select are very nice rifles at a reasonable price compared to a true Custom at $5000+.

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