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truck gun loads

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BEAR View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 June 2018 at 11:07
  Gave up my CCL for New York.  recently inherited a short barrelled 12 ga Mossyburg pump, which will be my travel truck gun; kept unloaded but with 4 shells in the buttstock holder.

I grabbed quickly into my shell cabinet  came up with 3" steel #4.  and that is what I'm using now.  I quit reloading shotshells a few years back (gave press away to youngster).

What would be a good shell load to carry for SD?????????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 12:24
I would say anything #4 and bigger to 0000 buck should do. Think turkey loads to deer, no slugs. Winchester makes a stacked load of semi flat slugs and buck stacked like a sammich for defense. Also, if your serious about the usage, pattern it for 25 yards with both 2 3/4 and 3" offerings. Some gun like the 2 3/4" mags for tightness over the 3's.


Good pick for a truck gun in these parts.
...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 12:50
I'm thinking wide pattern..and max range 8 yards.

when I reloaded I made 'spreader loads, there was aanother name for them (bad memory).  My reloads for spreader loads had a homemade  vertical X made of cardboard .  It disrupted the pattern and gave some fairly wide  coverage.

Also not sure if lead or steel is better for self defense.  At the ranges I'm thinking that I'd ever need to use a shotgun for self defense (8 yards max) any size shot will put 'em on the ground.  Number 12- 8 will probably not penetrate enough to kill; but will do a job that ER dr will have a nightmare.  steel #4 will penetrate any clothing.

thoughts.


Edited by BEAR - 22 June 2018 at 12:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 13:12
Rifled barrel will do the same thing for your pattern. Spins the whole mix and it rotates outward quickly. Just about any of the shot loads at that range will work for sure. But to not limit yourself and think car door cover or bear issue, the bigger stuff makes for the better choice. Side-note, stacked ammo and 0000 buck gives better penetration on radiators, porcelain commodes and refrigerator doors, also blows out window glass with great aplomb!


At close range I doubt you would see much difference in steel over lead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 13:54
Years ago I worked with a mfg for rubber bullets shot shells.  these were street sweeper loads; about the size of the shot column.  they could be fired directly at a person and would break ribs for sure, minimum penetratiom.  But were great when fired at the concrete; they would bounce and travel low to the ground breakin any leg they came in contact with.  Just the ticket for clearing a mob.

Cabela's now sells rubber "non-lethal" rubber bullet shotshells made in Italy.  9 Rubber Buckshot Pellets in each 2.75" shell; must be about the size of 0  buck?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 18:08
Bear we are talking thin skinned Whimpey human not a rabid gopher...
A 2 3/4 mag loaded with #5 nickel plated lead, never use steel, it sucks.
Cylinder bore or Mildly choked choke is always best .
You want as many pellets as you can and still penetrate heavy artier.
Most "Buck" will give you collateral damage of any pedestrians, and will go through a car door .  
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 18:13
right on D, buck is out; colatteral damage for sure.

  #4 steel will penetrat a car door; but I'll never be shooting at a car door/windshiled, etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2018 at 18:25
Don't use steel, bad choice.
Lead is Dead !!!
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2018 at 00:56
First off check, some states require 22" barrel, not the Federal's 18", that's why I kept mine to 22" and use 8rd mag extension (some states prohibit that too).

I can only tell you what, I carry in my 870 truck gun. First round, Breacher rd. (sintered/powdered metal in plastic capsule) (trap load could be another choice) this is for either taking out someone real close or window (without overpenetration). Then Turkey/Coyote load TT or BBB lead, #4 buck next, then OO Buck, top off with slugs. These are loaded in reverse order, of course.   

The most unloaded, I ever carry, is empty chamber, full mag, otherwise I carry Estwing framing hammer or Masons hammer, either will pass muster everywhere, just like Phillips screw driver.

Standard four round mag, used to get BB on top, followed by 00Buck and fill with slugs, with slugs in reserve for reloading.

If you want to see how ineffective trap or #4 steel is, wrap a ham (or Boston butt) with spare ribs and shoot it @ 8yds. Now shoot it with #4 buck and OO Buck. Shot will scuff up the ribs some, but nothing that'd stop someone.

If it gets pass first rd or two, it's gone real wrong and you'll want the slugs. You shouldn't have to worry about bystanders, just like pistol, watch your backstop.

What my Dad and many other carry, for truck/RV gun, accepted in many more areas, then even shotgun, a 30/30 lever 150-170gr lead, nothing fancy and very effective. You could go down to 45colt or up to 45/70, based on your comfort level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2018 at 21:38
I always figured #4 Buck would be a good all around load for defense shot gun loads. 

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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2018 at 16:18
They still make BB X 4?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2018 at 06:50
I think #4 buck in lead carries to far.

Again thinking 'close' encounters; 50 yard performance isn't desided.

Thought was that steel losses it's energy fast beyond 5o yards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2018 at 10:07
The relevant part of link, is towards bottom of link, rest is worth the read.
Shotgun Ballistics

For a real world test of defensive ammo, I use deer, pigs work too. It's frowned upon testing on people, even tough that was practiced in past. That's why, I shoot a deer or two, around the house, with less than traditional hunting arms.

Would you consider using #4 birdshot to stop a 150lb pig @ 8yds? 200lb? 400lb? 00Buck? It's not always the 120lb drug addict, trying to rob you.

The smallest shot, you will see Cops using for defense, is OO buck (other than "less lethal") most will only have slugs (2 3/4" reduced recoil is most common) in mag and first round 00 Buck. Having shot a deer, long ago with #4 Buck, I saw why most Departments don't issue it.

When you consider #4 Buck pellets are .24" and ~21gr (28ct) and OO Buck is .36" and ~54gr (9ct) and both start @~ 1,300fps, how much energy does each pellet have?
Buckshot

Think energy in terms of BP 24 caliber VS 36 Caliber using round ball, 36 would be marginal deer round and 24 would be better fox round, but with either would you expect dropped on the spot performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2018 at 12:04
Interesting.  Unfortunately all these reports make a BIG mistake.  They analyse just one of the small projectiles to conpute energy and killing power.

In defense shooting at less than 8 yards, most if not all of the shot will be in the purp.  So no matter what size pellet you use the bad guy will be getting hit with   1+ ounce ( 438 gr ).  This is a VERY lethal impact.  Any shot will put a 300# dude on the ground immediately.  Certainly, in flesh, damage would be better if a single 438 gr projectile was used.

Last year I wourked on a case with one shot lead #2 hit a guy at 23 yards, he was down instantly screaming until ambulance came.  At that distance with a full choke pattern he was hit with 78 pellets, and was hospitalized for months, still recovering; One testicle gone!  He was generally centered in the full choke pattern, which would have been 3 times bigger than my theoretical 8 yards.

I hunt ducks and found most of my birds were hit with 5 pellets to be DRT.  Single pellet energy is a very good measure of penetration.  I do not think #4 steel will penetrate beyond 3-4 inches, but that should put a guy down fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2018 at 22:38
I kinda think that what cops use has been researched and tested. Maybe slugs and 00 Buck would be better. 

When I carry my .38 special I load it with a Federal load that is supposed to be the old FBI load. I hope I don't need it but if I do I think it should work as good for me as it did for them. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2018 at 05:20
Police appear to carry shotgun loads depending upon their specific assignment.

highway Patrol police will mostly be shooting at vehicles.  they want to be able to shoot out tires and if needed thru car doors.  (buck)

Urban police carry loads to quall riots.  (non-lethat, rubber).

My rural police carry fine bird shot, used often for dispatching wounded animals (#12 was popular but expensive and difficult to find, so the changed to #8).

Of course all police use shotguns primarily for intimidation.

Also remember police 'needs' are usually offensive...not defensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2018 at 11:40
Like most defensive choices, it comes down to your personal comfort level.

Like the one armed guy, with three pistol's, I'd rather have them, when I need them, than not.

For a truck gun, it's not too hard to think, why you may need to shoot through door or windshield, in a defensive situation, certainly more likely, than for house gun.


Again it comes down to personal choice.
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