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Mausers

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jsgbearpaws1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mausers
    Posted: 17 February 2021 at 02:02
Weatherbey MK V, Uber tough! Never heard of an action failure, barrels yes. Apollo as well. Some of the most sought actions for VLD wildcats as they take immense amounts of abuse. Saw a 257 failure, poor load, jammed into the grooves tight. Fired with the bullet lodged. Action was perfect, barrel was sketchy. Punched the bullet back out and the copper jacket was sliced and wedged into the grooves. A weaker action would probably removed the side of his face. Same with compressed 300's and 340's, not a hiccup. Folks have over loaded them for decades. They come with a drawback though and that is weight and only in a magnum long action. Good for wildcatters but not so much for many hunters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MapleHill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2021 at 18:51
There were some "poor" action designs. I have Ackley's book where he went into detail trying to destroy actions by overloading the cartridge. Very, very interesting reading. The Krag-Jorgeson action was deemed weak and IIRC, Ackley proved it. I can't remember the details without re-reading it, but I believe it had a single locking lug. The 98 Mausers were one of, if not THE strongest actions he tested. Remember, this was done in the late 50s/early 60s. And, as mentioned above, the time frame in which the rifle was produced made a huge difference in the quality of steel. Early/pre war Arisakas were very tough, but later the Japs were desperate and the steel quality suffered and so did the firearms. I am not a collector of militaria, but always interested in reading and discussing them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2021 at 22:56
Nearly all Bolt Action CF rifles can claim some heritage/lineage from the original Mauser design. Look at early Ruger bolt guns & some current models for one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2021 at 06:26
Also military weapons made during war suffer.  '43-46 mausers are in my opinion questionable.  Also building on an action that is 75+ years old negates the knowledge of what stress has it seen.  Is it an action only because someone fired it with mud in the barrel and blew the barrel into pieces?  what stress have such actions seen?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 15:56
Good information Bear. 

Another point in the making of a good rifle is the metalurgy that was available at the time they were made. 

Their is a seperate section in some loading manuals for the 6.5X55 in a military rifle and the 6.5X55 SE that is built in a modern action. The metal wasn't as good in 1896 as it is now. 

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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 13:40
Mauser are good actions, there are other good actions.

Mauser started the Staggered magazine, patented it.  So mauser in the early days had higher mag capacity than most others.  Every one followed suit, and few in-line centerfires exist.
Lots of folks think the control round feed is a great invention.  In the mauser action that didn't let one single feed.  Importantly it required lots of fine design/tolerances to feed properly with the exact cartridge they were made for.  Mauser were for 8x57 and 7x57 and some 6.5x55.  When they are chambered to other cartridges, they are prone to feed problems.

Compared to todays designs, mauser place second, regarding feeding and accuracy.  Never see one at a bench rest match, lots of remington M700 actions and m700 clones.

Push feed M700 has more accuracy advantages.  And is stronger, having and enclosed bolt face.  While the mauser style CRF has a large extractor that rotates on the bolt.  thereby the barrel has a large cut-out for the extractor, where the brass case is not supported at all, a weak link.

People like the old actions as they were forged, today actions are fabricated or cast giving better Quaality Control.

Some control-round-feed fans, defend their belief, by saying a Mauser CRF can cycle and fire upside-down.  I've never hunted upside down! so what does that statement mean?  The CRF does permit the action to be short stroked, backing the bolt up before a round is chambered; again something no one would knowingly do.

Actually, always thought a Arisaka 99 would make a nice sporter!

Just some thoughts.


Edited by BEAR - 12 February 2021 at 13:43
“ The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 11:24
OK I'm relatively new to rifles and such.
Mostly I'm just kind of ignorant in what makes one better than the other.
So why are the Mauser actions held in such regard?
Is there any other brand thought of as good, what makes a POOR action?
I'm not trying to stir the pot or hijack just wondering.
I have one and its very good but I have a Rem 700, and a T/C that I feel are as good, I don't know why. I have never had any misfortune with any of them. We have a few Savages, and WB's to and they seam good also.
Please enlighten me.


Edited by d4570 - 12 February 2021 at 11:25
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 11:12
I have  a Antonio Zoli O/U.  very good.

They just bought branded guns, but their buyer must have been a good firearms guy.

Fishing stuff was also good back in the day.  They turned to junk in 1990s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 10:58
interesting history on the JCHiggings branding bear. Sears has several major gun companies build rifles for them over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 10:09
Those FN actions are very good.  Thumb safety.  Those are mauser style, but I do not think they were made or licensed by Mauser company.  My Kimber is a mauser clone.

And they were great value back when the US dollar had some international value.

Sears had some good guns   sold under J.C. Higgins and Ted Williams.

We all know whoTed Wiliams was, but did you know:

John Higgins began working for Sears in 1898 as the manager of the headquarters' office bookkeepers and retired as company comptroller in 1930. "John Higgins" the employee became "J.C. Higgins" the brand name during a discussion in 1908 among Sears' executives of possible names for a new line of sporting goods.


Edited by BEAR - 12 February 2021 at 10:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 09:06
I have a couple of comercial Mausers. One is an FN action that has a High Standard barrel and was labeled as a JC Higgins and sold by Sears and Roebuck. It's actually a pretty good shooting gun. 

The other one is an Interarms Mark X. It's not too bad either but not as accurate as the JC Higgins. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 08:07
There were commerical (non-military Mausers)  great rifles, few if any were canibalized.  Most came with double set triggers, 8mm, 9.3, 9x57 were popular cartridges.  The Herter's rifles were all take-off military actions with new bluing, stocks and barrels.

When I was in school, mauser actions were $10 and they came 50 in a wooden barrel.  In foreign places they took off all the barrel and stocks, cheaper to ship and they were not importing rifles, just parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2021 at 07:13
Then there is the ones made by different companies, right?
Mine is a Herters J6 ( ? ) basically a 98 with a different bolt release and crooked scope base screw holes.
 It must be almost a Swedish Mauser, at least some of the parts are interchangeable with mine. Like the bottom metal, extractor, and trigger unit. 


Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2021 at 23:19
Great information Bear. 

I don't have a Mauser at the time but have had several over the years. They are great rifles. 

Wing master
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2021 at 20:10
Nice bit of info bear. I don't happen to have any mauser's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2021 at 09:55
Someone PMed me for info on ID of old 7x57 mauser.  Send a brief reply.  thought it might be of interest here.  really so many variations on Mausers that a book would be needed.  I made what I consider to be a gun show level info.


Mauser   ID

 

Mauser rifles were made in many models, and chamberings.  Mauser found it more profitable to license various manufacturer to make their rifles in various countries, probably dozens of countries and dozens of facilities.

First, I like to know the model, ’93 and ’98 being the most popular.  Original ’93s cock on the bolt closing, while ‘98s cock on opening the bolt.  Most original 93s have a steel polished cocking shroud, the part at the rear where the safety rides. While most ‘98s have a bolt shroud that is blued.  Sporterized versions usually change this.

If the action is not in military condition, such as sporterized, many things have changed and that make ID difficult.  Some ’93s were sporterized and a new cock on opening was changed.  Bolt handles and safeties were usually changed also; again, making ID tough.

Spanish Mausers-

Basically, the Spanish Mausers were made in 2 action types: the 98 and the 93 (or 1916M95).  The 98 is a beefier action and usually will be found with a straight bolt.  The 93's action is smaller and often has a bent bolt.  Some Spanish Mausers will have a crest on the top of the receiver along with the arsenal Oviedo and a date; these markings are usually on the 93 actions and are usually chambered for the 7mmx57 Mauser caliber. 

There were some special rifles chambered for the 308 or 762x51 caliber.  Most Spanish Mausers found today were imported in the ’60-90 era.  And then may be import stamped.  Then I look on the exposed part of the barrel, near the front site for very small stamped markings.   INport marks were placed here as the military style stock/wood coveed most of the barrel. If you find any markings, they will usually have the model number and the country from where it was made; it may say something like this: m93 7mm Spain and then the importer like CAI and Virginia something like that.


Regarding your rifle; Oviedo is a city in northern Spain.  “AER” is the stamp of the importer-  American Arms North Kansas City, Missouri

Manufacturers Codes on German Military Mausers   some, not all.

S/42 Mauser-Werke, A.-G.,
42 Obendorf a./N.
660 Steyr-Daimler-Puch, A.-G., Steyr, Austria
945 Waffenwerke Bruenn, A.-G., Brno, Czechoslovakia
ar Mauser-Werke, A.-G., Werk Borsigwalde, Berlin-Borsigwalde, Eichborndamm
ax Feinmechanische Werke, G.m.b.H., Erfurt, Altonaerstr. 25
bcd Gustloff Werke, Werk Weimar, Weimar
bnz Steyr-Daimler –Puch, A.-G., Werk Steyr, Steyr, Austra
byf Mauser-Werke, A.-G., Oberndorf a./N.
ce J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Suhl
dot Waffenwerke Bruenn, A.-G., Brno, Czechoslovakia
dou Waffenwerke Bruenn, A.-G., Werk Bystrica
duv Berlin-Luebecker Maschinenfabriken, Werk Luebeck
svw Mauser-Werke, A.-G., (late code) Oberndorf a./N.




Edited by BEAR - 11 February 2021 at 09:59
“ The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.”
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