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Shooting gone crazy.

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Tikkabuck View Drop Down
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**Robert E. Lee IV **

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    Posted: 03 November 2017 at 07:18
   OK I think I know what your gonna say ,but I want to see what you guys think. This rifle in question is a Weatherby Vanguard ,scope is a Ziess Conquest , ammo is Hornady .
  On the bench the scope is bore sited, rifle is clean ,everything is tight . These barrels are not free floated . Shooting factory ammo in 129 gr, and 147gr. Just to get reloading out of the way.
 
 Shoots way high out of the gate. Like 9" at 100 .making scope adjustments is a joke. they are way left , right, never coming any lower than 5 to 6".
 
  Bring it home , look at the boresighter again it has moved some ,but not what you'd expect 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 08:18
I take it scope, isn't adjusting, like expected. I'd make sure you aren't out of adjustment range. (used up all adjustment range, bore sighting) or aren't against zero stop.

Even though it's a Ziess, I'd want to rule out scope first, by swapping a known scope onto it or by putting Ziess on known shooter. If Ziess is OK on known shooter and known scope won't adjust on WBY, I'd look at rings. If rings aren't aligned, it could bind tube, keeping scope from adjusting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 08:26
I'd probably check the scope first - after that, maybe the barrel channel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 08:30
I think that Robert has the starting point.

Often it is the mount system that is at fault; 

Mount problems:
screws not tight,
 lok-tite on screws will mess it up, you can't then check if the mounts are tight.
Talley mounts that will not let you tighten or check the mount to rifle screws without disassembly.
Are the mount correct for rifle (front/back reversed).

Just curious Tikka...what cartridge, what model??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 09:06
Its a 6.5 Bear ,I'm not at all happy with these new fangled scope mounts, I have ordered a good old set of Lupy's . Stick with what I know. Yes they are tight . It's a S-2 model. 
 What's weird about this Weatherby is the barrel channel, it is hard tight against the barrel, this is the first S-2 for me so I have nothing to compare it to . Our other Weatherby's are all free floated, thats kinda confusing . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 11:53
Is it uniformly touching, or just bearing in one spot?

Down the road, after getting the scope thing fixed, might want to shim the action at the front ring to get it free floating.

Found this :

Why are some Weatherby® rifles “free floated” and some are not?

We have found through our testing that barrels having a smaller outside diameter than our #3 contour require upward pressure to help stabilize the barrel for increased accuracy. Our free floated barrels have enough rigidity in the barrel for them to be free floated.  weatherby site.


Edited by BEAR - 03 November 2017 at 11:54
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**Robert E. Lee IV **

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 13:54
It is uniform
,but boy in it tight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 14:05
I suspect the barrel is thin.  IF so Howa thinks that putting upward pressure will stop the barrel from 'sagging' thereby have reduced harmonic/vibration.  think of it like making the barrel stiffer.

Only way to see if it works is to shoot it.  I'd do nothing to the gun until the scope thing is fixed.  Then shoot it a good bit before thinking of doing anything to the rifle.

My moto is "don't fix it, if it isn't broken."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 20:29
Tika....did you try running the adjustments full out and back to, get total clicks count then move to center by click 1/2 count? To give you most usable adj range. 

Also, there are kits to lap the scope rings to make them "true" so they fit scope tube perfect. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 21:13
I have a Weatherby Vanguard in .270. It's an older model about 20 years old. The barrel is not floated, but it doesn't fit real tight in the channel. just touching. 

Can you put something like a piece of matchbook cover under the recoil lug to space the barrel up a little to simulate a floated barrel and try it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 21:35
Originally posted by Wing master Wing master wrote:

I have a Weatherby Vanguard in .270. It's an older model about 20 years old. The barrel is not floated, but it doesn't fit real tight in the channel. just touching. 

Can you put something like a piece of matchbook cover under the recoil lug to space the barrel up a little to simulate a floated barrel and try it?

Wing master

Geez wing where can you find a match book cover now days??????
 

It may not matter but the Weatherby Vanguard's are/were made with HOWA Actions. I don't know if HOWA made the entire gun for Weatherby or someone else with their actions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2017 at 21:39
all  vanguards were/are 100% Howa.  Weatherby just gets them already boxed in cardboard that say Weatherby (lots of profit).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 08:23
  IBD yes on the scope adjustments, always bring a scope to factory zero whenever I mount one, also yes sir been lapping rings forever .
  Wing man gonna try that, maybe use a guitar pick. Big smile
 
   I have some Leopold two piece base's on the way, then gonna put a safe queen Leopold on it and see how it does.
 
   If it was a bedding issue wouldn't they be more consistent just way high ? May be over thinking this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 08:26
If I read his question correctly, he was having issues getting scope to adjust reticle/poi, he hasn't got scope to move enough, to address accuracy yet.

I would shoot rifle, adjust turret 1/2 turn one way and shoot again, if it didn't move poi, I'd turn it one turn in opposite direction and see if it moved poi, if not, it's scope or mount problem, not rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 21:27
Good point Robert and good suggestion. 

I do think a guitar pick would be about the right thickness to raise the barrel up away from the channel. 

I have used a matchbook cover but i guess they probably are hard to find now-a-days.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 21:56
wing, a match book cover (if you could find one) would absorb moisture overtime maybe and that could change things too....not necessarily for the better tho....Smile

we'll just have to wait and see what Tika finds out what the actual issue is/was and how he got around it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 05:41
Shim cut from ARRP card, works better, modern version of matchbook cover.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 09:27
What gets me guy's is it's not consistent. I will try and post a picture of the target and number the shots so you can see what I am dealing with .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 09:55
Originally posted by RobertMT RobertMT wrote:

Shim cut from ARRP card, works better, modern version of matchbook cover.


RobtMT......ya know....AARP is extremely anti-gun so I wonder if using an AARP card for a shim in a Rifle would actually be detrimental????

Tika....it's gotta be a bugger to have that problem with a nice quality setup like you have there. You seem to have covered the basics. Perseverance will save the day for you. Be interesting to see the target and how the shots went. A long shot here (pun intended) random thoughts....is your shooting system stable ie: front/rear rests, bench or table, don't know if stock is wood, laminate, synthetic so any way moisture can be an issue, like warpage..???? Trigger???

Edited by Irish Bird Dog - 05 November 2017 at 10:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2017 at 21:47
The match book cover is just temporary to see if that helps accuracy. If that's the problem, bedding the action is in order for a permanent fix. 

Wing master
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