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I'm looking for a open carry handgun

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Forum Name: Handguns, Pistols and SixGuns
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URL: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=27701
Printed Date: 25 April 2024 at 03:06
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Topic: I'm looking for a open carry handgun
Posted By: d4570
Subject: I'm looking for a open carry handgun
Date Posted: 28 August 2022 at 13:29
You all know I have a Blackhawk 45 lc.
It's NOT an everyday carry gun, very impressive but not what I would carry around, 'cept for hunting.
My boy has 3, 1911 type 45 acp that I could use any time I need to. I'm not a 40 or 9mm kind of guy. I do a little security work at nights,So I'm thinking 10mm. semi auto.
I am aware that a 10mm has big recoil but so does the LC, 41 mag, the 357 is horrible for noise and recoil. That brings me back to a 4.5" 10mm.
It may not be a good choice in a crowd because of the collateral damage. I have been researching it and it could be a 100 yard pistol, cool. Glock, S&W, rock island, Sig, Remington, what ever. I need it to be as close to $600 as I can get. 
SO you pistol guys need to school me on semi's and carries, I LIKE the idea of a 10.
Probably want to cast for it too and powder coat.
YOU know me I like'em hot too.
My little phoenix arms 22 is a great carry but it will only piss off a perp or rabid badger.
Please I'm a newbie on this stuff.



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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box



Replies:
Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 29 August 2022 at 12:02
Just my thoughts on open carry firearms.

I prefer SA/DA revolvers, with the ruger SP101 3" 357 need the top of the list. (yea not an auto).

In such handguns I do not like any 'striker fired guns'.  If you get a fail to fire, they must be manually cycled to eject a defective round; critical waste of time compared to just pulling the trigger again (most failed rounds fire a second time).

I know you are in the firearm friendly state of MT; but open carry often creats problems, from both good guys and bad.  CW is a better way to go.

When I worked for a detective agency, I carried a S&W  model 39.  It is a 4" 9mm on and aluminum SA/DA action gun.  still the best carry piece, but can be somewhat large for CCW.  smaller and much lighter than a 1911.

Just thoughts.


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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 29 August 2022 at 12:08
I'm not trying to hide it.
Even in my security job they want it exposed.
Mine would be for home use and when out hunting.
A lighter then the 45 colt.



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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 29 August 2022 at 13:17
Open carry signal fear to many good guys, and it makes on a target to bad guys.

I open carried a K frame Smith when working as security, BUT I also had blue uniform which helped on the good guy side.  And bad guys see the "blue" before they see and react to an open carry.

I believe for protection the 9mm and the 357 are best choices, as most if not all people will shoot those better than 10/45/40

I like the 41, but remember that the 10mm was designed by the FBI then dropped later as few agents could shoot it proficiently. 

When I worked security, 1970-73, they paid more when I carried.

Just thoughts




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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 29 August 2022 at 13:36
When working I have a very flashy blue and black uniform with placards all over it. It was made as a deterrent to people, RIGHT. Yes they pay more when armed and more if you carry a canceled permit which I have. We don't need one anymore to carry canceled, state law. I think it will be more of a defense from bear the a work gun. I think the 10 could fill in the space for me, 9mm, 40, 45 asp, 45 special, 45 colt, 44 mag.
And it looks cool.
Can a person use 40 Cal ammo in a 10 like 45acp in a 45colt?


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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 30 August 2022 at 00:12
should not fire 40 in 10mm autoloader.  Both of these are straight walled cases that headspace on the MOUTH.  the 10mm is longer.  So using a shorter cartridge means it can't headspace and hangs on th extractor...not good.  it might fire but is hard on the gun, and can cause permanent damage to barrel or shooter.

38/357 headspace on rim.

if you have a 1mm revolver with moon clips, you can as those headspae on the moon clip


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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: 788Fan
Date Posted: 30 August 2022 at 06:56
Be careful of the interchangeability issue.  In a Blackhawk, you can use 45 ACP is you have the ACP cylinder.  Like in a 1911, they headspace on the rim.  If you drop them into an LC cylinder, they just slide in and won't fire.  I have a Smith 610, a 10mm revolver.  Since it uses full moon clips, I can put 40S&W in it, it just makes cleaning a pain as you have to get into the cylinder an hog out the lead that collects.  It's the same problem you get if you put a steady diet of 38SPL in a 357.

I'm not a fan of open carry in public without a uniform.  Back in my security days, the uniform was okay to have a gun on my hip.  For social work, I prefer that no one know.  Open carry is okay for working in the woods.  Then it's a RBH in 45LC often with snake shot in the first two chambers.  For CCW, I have a S&W 3953, the DAO version of the 3913.  

IMHO.  788


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"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking 1942-2018


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 30 August 2022 at 08:11
Just a passing thought on the acp.
There is like a tenth of a cent difference in loading cost. 
https://www.armscor.com/firearms-list/rock-ultra-fs-10mm-8rd
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/handguns/european-american-armory-corp-girsan-mc1911-hunter-10mm-auto-6in-matte-black-pistol-81-rounds/p/1732178

I keep coming back to one of theses.
Price and looks. 
There is a Springfield arms one I really like but the price gust does not work for me.





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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: Wing master
Date Posted: 31 August 2022 at 21:37
I shoot a 1911 in USPSA (run and gun) matches. It is heavier than some other plastic guns but in my opinion it's not too heavy to carry. A good belt and a good holster make all the difference in the world. 

I've heard good things about the Rock Island 1911's. But that's in .45 ACP. I don't know anyone that has one in 10mm. I'm sure it would be a good choice though. 

I also think any of them can be shot well with practice. I'm sure theirs a USPSA club in Great Falls. Maybe you could go to some of their practices. I have found them to be a great bunch of guys that are really receptive to having people join them. And the best thing their courses are set up to be like real life encounters. Shooting around barricades from positions that are not the most comfortable etc. 


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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 31 August 2022 at 21:48
Cool Wing.
 I'm not a joiner, so I'll pass on the club.
I can find a lot of places and things to shoot.
Maybe a bear!!!
ClapBig smile


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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: Wing master
Date Posted: 01 September 2022 at 20:35
I have heard of people carrying a 10mm for protection in bear country. 

I wouldn't think you would have to join or go to any matches. Guys from the club here practice every thursday night and will let anyone shoot with them that wants to. 


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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.


Posted By: stinky
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 23:16
Assuming that you are set on 10mm....Glock or 1911.  The Glock you can get w/their MOS system and put a red-dot on it.

I don't know what you can get on the Rock Island.  But, being as it is a 1911 there is a pretty good market out there for accessories.  They are getting a good reputation.  But, I've also heard that their steel is not as good as other guns.  I do not know though. 

.22LR doesn't have the stopping power.  But, It is really magical, in that it penetrates real well.  If you carry a .22 for defense, you have to remember, anything worth shooting once, is worth shooting till slide-lock.  That said, if I was working, carrying a gun, it wouldn't be a .22 (like you said).


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John 14:6


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 08:29
People protection is way down on the list as for use.
Chances of me ever needing to use it as defense are almost zero. Just a show thing like a badge.
When I work I can pick and choose were and what I watch, Last assignment I set in my truck for 10 or 12 hours watching two buildings all night long, I did however see one very suspicious cottontail looking around. I need a fast link to the sheriff more then a gun.
BUT I carry when I'm out, seldom in town you NEVER know about a rabid gopher may jump you. And of course a cranky bear or fluffy cow, or farmers dog. Sometimes I just see a rock begging be to shoot it.
Glock you can't use cast lead bullets.Smile



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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 10:21
that somewhat changes the equation.

Just to carry for show and some plinking, tough to beat a 4: 38 special.  very cheap to shoot, fun and lethal.


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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 12:30
It's going to be a 10mm.
 I was actually expecting more info on the 10mm round in the auto platform rather then the gun and purpose. Humm?
Or on the low end 1911 specifically Information or opinions on either.
I don't know anyone that has one or even ever shot one.


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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 13:02
As you probably know the 10mm is just about dead.  It was designed for gun fights by FBI.  After 2 years they dropped it as not acuracy friendly to new agents (female types????)  

Most of the semi-autos offered today are to a very small market, and therefore high end.

Two of my friends had them; thinking they wanted the slightly more power that the 40 auto.

I'm thinking even in the used market you are looking somewhat  north of $700 for a decent model. 

 Never see them at the range, and I've been looking fo some since your request  .   that might be because ammo is $$$???

One problem with autos, you can really not load them light.  To function then one can change springs.

Just thoughts


PS in my state autos are not legal to hunt with.

If you don't own one, I like the handcannons, like the 375 single shot with 10 inch barrel.


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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 14:19
Bear you know us...
We will hunt with a wrist rocket just because we want to.
From what I have been reading a lead 175gr load IS reduced.
Some of the bear guides in AK are starting to carry 10mm's rather then the BIG frame 50's and 44 mags.
But there +p loads with 300 gr jacketed bullets.
Dead rounds seam to be my weakness.
Clap



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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 16:50
what does thius mean

"Dead rounds seam to be my weakness."

Hunting Alaska I carry a 9mm auto aluminum frame, for bear protection.  So I have it. 

45 1911 usually stays in camp, pulls your pants off and need to be cocked, ie single action!


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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: Irish Bird Dog
Date Posted: 08 September 2022 at 00:41
" 45 1911 usually stays in camp, pulls your pants off and need to be cocked, ie single action!"
1911 is designed to be carried in "Condition 1", cocked & locked with hammer back & round in chamber and SAFETY ON.
Plus they have a grip safety also....two safety's.
To use Push Safety OFF & Pull trigger!


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Irish Bird Dog

NRA Life/Endowment

2nd Amendment Supporter


Posted By: Irish Bird Dog
Date Posted: 08 September 2022 at 00:46

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrCwLCwgBljSCcAISEPxQt.;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1662644528/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ballistics101.com%2f10mm.php/RK=2/RS=cqxYCLeLwX_tRXKocCKU_BwicbI-" rel="nofollow - 10mm Auto Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101

Buffalo Bore Ammunition Ballistics: Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy ftlb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. 10mm Auto: TAC-XP: 155: 774: 1500: 10mm Auto: FN: 220: 703: 1200: 10mm Auto: FN: 200: 639: 1200: 10mm Auto: DPX: 180: 728: 1350: Cor-Bon Ammunition Ballistics: Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy ftlb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. 10mm Auto: DPX: 155: 675: 1400: 10mm Auto: JHP: 135: 588: 1400: 10mm Auto: JHP: 150: 585: 1325: 10mm Auto: JHP: 165

Round
Type
Weight
Muzzle Energy Ftlb
10mm Auto
FMJ
200
490
10mm Auto
TAC-XP
155
774
10mm Auto
FN
220
703
10mm Auto
FN
200
639

http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php" rel="nofollow - See full list on ballistics101.com

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrEePBggRlj4LoAGgAPxQt.;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzYEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1662644704/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.ammoland.com%2f2010%2f06%2fted-nugent-on-wilson-combat-10mm-ammo%2f/RK=2/RS=qYbMecUF5qtu4cF4BZFPfijSk4A-" rel="nofollow - Ted Nugent on Wilson Combat & 10mm Ammo

Jun 08, 2010 Ted is well known for his support of the 10mm as a hunting and self-defense caliber of choice.



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Irish Bird Dog

NRA Life/Endowment

2nd Amendment Supporter


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 08 September 2022 at 07:56
I think in an auto the 10 is as big as it gets,,,Sofar.

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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: Irish Bird Dog
Date Posted: 08 September 2022 at 08:44
Check out the Desert Eagle semi-auto handgun for a bigger one.Wink

https://www.magnumresearch.com/desert-eagle/


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Irish Bird Dog

NRA Life/Endowment

2nd Amendment Supporter


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 08 September 2022 at 13:02
Shocked

That's some pistol.
What a hand full that would be.


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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: deaddog
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 00:18
The FBI stopping power studies all come to the same conclusion with handgun cartridges.  Average number of shots to incapacitate an assailant is over one. The best stopping combination in the studies Ive seen is a 125gr .357mag. It usually comes in at about 1.3 rounds to incapacitate. The 10mm is very close to this very respectable performance. The diminutive 9mm takes 1.6 rounds to incapacitate.  What the studies do not address is shots per second. The 9mm in all but the smallest frame guns can be fired 3:1 over the magnums and the 10mm. This is the reason nearly everyone and every agency has gone back to the 9mm after forays into 10mm, 357 Sig, and even 40 S&W.  It takes more than one shot.

Ive had a Glock 20 in 10mm. Even shot a whitetail with it. I dont have any bad things to say about the cartridge. I would say that the extra power between.40 and 10mm isnt the same as .38spcl and 357. After owning or at least shot all the big pistol  stuff 454, 460, 480, 500, 45-70, I am no longer a fan. Perhaps a .460 S&W? It would make those hot Long Colts feel like 38 Specials.  The savings mentioned on reloading didnt take into account the price of brass. They about give away 40 S&W, 45 acp isnt bad but 10mm is twice as much or more. If I had to carry something to backup my bear spray it would be a Glock 40 in 10mm. That would be its only purpose. I have plenty of single purpose guns in obsolete cartridges. All of us here reload so that is not the issue. The problem is mission creep. It is not a Jack of all trades gun(s) or caliber.  


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Endeavor to persevere.


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 07:36
Nice DD, good honest wright up.
It is just about spot on to my line of thought.
But I want to add, I want to shoot cast bullets as an added twist. I have read that you can't shoot lead in the Glock so I have ruled that one out. I will keep in mind if I need to shoot somebody it will take about 1 1/2 shots to stop them. All though if it is a bear I think 8 would be better, you know just in case...Clap


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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: BEAR
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 09:12
As with lots of tissue stopping...bullet placement is more important than energy.

The 9 mm is the popular cartridge, because almost all people shoot it more accurately than 10 mm or 45.


My go to pistol for big stuff is a T/c  in 375.  Gives me more than twice the power/energy of a 10 mm.  And it is very accurate, got whitetail kills out to 152 yards.  13 deer all one shot kills, DRT.  250/270 grs.

But it is a heavy handgun to carry, even in my leather shoulder holster.

The 358 herret is another winner.


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The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.


Posted By: Go-ddaed
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 14:01
Lead bullets in a 10mm is a perfect example of mission creep. You can shoot lead in the 6mm and 30/378 too I guess?

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Palindrome wannabe


Posted By: d4570
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 14:17
I have load for my 3006 that are cast and shoot, lights out...
A buddy shoots 223 cast.



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Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box


Posted By: deaddog
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 17:20
I missed the part that you wanted a 4.5 tube. Hot .40 Slow & Weak will do the same as a 10 at that barrel length.  Same as a 7.5 inch 45-70  vs a 7.5 .450 Marlin. 

I shoot cast in a Glock two different ways.  Aftermarket fully supported chamber barrel, and reduced subsonic loads in the factory barrel. Nothing close to warm or hot.

I have a mold for everything I have except.204. I understand the desire for a backup source.  Too many cheap pull down jacketed .40s out there to mess with powder coating. 

.45 Winchester Magnum except for price. 


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Endeavor to persevere.



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