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Let’s Talk 12GA From Hell

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Topic: Let’s Talk 12GA From Hell
Posted By: hubel458
Subject: Let’s Talk 12GA From Hell
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 06:50

I mentioned it on another thread.

I have it chambered in a Savage 210 bolt action, and two others over on AR forums use Borchardt falling block.

It is a case we build from BMG brass by putting on a 12ga size rim, after turning off original rim and thread it 5/8 x 24. Picture shows this as well as 3 different slugs in cases.Ed

 

 



-------------
Ed Hubel



Replies:
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 28 February 2006 at 07:17
that looks like a killer, ed!

i am guessing that this would be used for self-defense or for big game
hunting?

-------------
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

Helfen, Wehren, Heilen
Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 March 2006 at 02:49

What is the muzzle velocity/bullet weights?

Are you using shotgun or rifle chamber pressures?

Interesting.

BEAR



Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 01 March 2006 at 03:07

Bear- in my Savage I hold pressures to 30-35,000 psi

that I calculated as proper working pressures for action,

with the heavy thickwall barrel and our cases.

Rob' with his Borchardt can run full rifle pressures.

He got 750 gr banded solid out at 3000 fps with 320gr

of W748 ball powder.  I got 730 gr hard lead Dixie slug

out at 2700 with 320 gr of Magpro ball. Same slug to

2400 with 320 gr of WC- 860 ball. I  got 327 gr saboted

bullet out at 3900 with 280 gr of H-335 ball.Ed.



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: gitano
Date Posted: 03 March 2006 at 06:11
Quote I  got 327 gr saboted

bullet out at 3900 with 280 gr of H-335 ball.

Heilige scheise Batman! At 30 - 35kPSI?!?!?!

11 thousand ft-lbs at the muzzle - kills at both ends. I need one.

Paul



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One man with courage is a majority. Andrew Jackson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 15 March 2006 at 17:24

Gitano-- It's possible because of the huge volumne

 of our case as seen in this comparison picture to regular

12ga case.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 30 March 2006 at 15:42

Here is comparison picture of our case in the middle

with 700NE on the left,and my 700 HE on the right.

A perspective of case size.Ed

 

 



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 14 April 2006 at 16:06

Here is picture of a heavy double with alloy barrels,

like rifles have, that we are checking out to see if they

will work for our cartridge.Ed

 



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 17:52

I have figured out that all bullets for 500 S&W
will fit in the sabot Barnes uses in the
3/4 oz sabot load that Federal sells.Lighter
505 bullets will work also. And the front section of a 50 bmg bore rider bullet, it
is 2nd in picture in the sabot. It
is 470 grains, really streamlined.And
you can buy them by the ton, just cut back
portion that is .510 diameter off.First is
sabot with Barnes 3/4 oz hollowpoint slug.3rd is the 900gr 600NE slug in my sabot made from heavy shotcup. 4th on the miniature digital scale is an older Barnes .580 cal
saboted slug expanded, it's 435gr.Ed.




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Kingpin
Date Posted: 21 May 2006 at 14:04

Ed, you have totally peaked my imagination. Would you please pm me the dimensions of your cartridge and what you did to install the rim. With the amount of spent .50 bmg brass around, I feel the need to build one. Please include all the dimensions and thread pitches and the type of gun you converted.....if you don't mind please.......................Kingpin



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There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.


Posted By: NH_Hunter
Date Posted: 21 May 2006 at 15:39
The gun he used is a Savage 210. That means King will have to drop the cash for the borchardt action .

Man, that thing looks fun as hell when you touch it off. Not sure I would want to shoot it off of a bench though.


-------------
Leverguns make me smile
Proud Left Handed Shooter


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 14:31

Kingpin- As NH-Hunter says I use Savage 210 bolt action

with heavy barrel and heavy weighted stock.

We had rims made and brass threaded 5/8 x 24 for them by

Bridger bullets on their CNC setup.They turned off old rim

threaded and loctited on new 12ga size rim.Ed  Here is picture

of my Savage with long heavy barrel.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 15:43

Shot a 610 grain hollowpoint Dixie hard
slug into 6 gallon sealed pail of water.
Going 2800 fps, and real big hollowpoint.
First pic is pail with crimped on top.
Pail full and has filler spout capped.
Second pic,impact with water atomising,
and pail blowing apart.In the next small
fraction of a second is third after impact
with shelf cleared, the hyrostatic pressure
down, has bent top of steel frame shelf.
Same blast put jug pieces all over.
Got to get a 15 gallon one. Behind
you see my wood bundle backstop...Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Kingpin
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:59
JESUS CHRIST!!!!!! I'm building one soon. I really admire the way it bent the table. The pawn shops will be scoured until I find a gun.............Kingpin

-------------
There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.


Posted By: Schleprok
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 16:00

Uhmm...  "think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch????"

 

 



Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 14 June 2006 at 15:03

Hubel, Do you take requests? Concrete Blocks! I want to see some standard 10" 3 cell concrete blocks placed endwise and photographed at slow mo. or watermelons turned to red mist. I wonder if you could use it to split campfire wood? 

Didn't we have a thread on here a long time ago where somebody asked if certain loads would "over explode" deer? We all laughed at the time but I think this might fit the bill. RD



-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 25 June 2006 at 16:12

We will do a cement block in few days.

I picked up a 12ga NEF Ultra Slug gun.24 in shorty barrel.
Added weight and thumbhole stock.
Gun weighted to 15 lbs so
far. I got 600gr hard slug to
1650-1700 so far, and shoots easy.
Got 1 1/2 inch thick pad.Working up different
loads.Should get over 2000.
Cases eject easy,no resizing needed
on bottom half of case,action opens easy,
no evidence of binding.Started case 3.2 inch,
settled on case length of 3.15-- Chamber being
full size max 12ga size expands top half of case
more than my minimum chamber in Savage does,
so little more effort needed to size.Our case, though many times stronger than regular
12ga cases is thinner at mouth, so that is
why I used tight chamber on Savage.Still
can't get used to mickey mouse short barrel.
Anyone know of a genius who could
make long alloy barrel with pivot mounted?
Cases can be 3 inches on up to
our length, and work.Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 01 July 2006 at 14:56
We got 600 gr slug to 2000 fps in NEF.Used ball
powder load. Case length of maximum 3.07 works.
Can use our case shorter, but load developement harder.
Anyone using our style case should also put in adapter
for shotgun primer. Save a lot of work
beefing up hammer speed and strength.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 17:54

Being some guns need to much work
to fire bmg primers, it easier to
do the following with adapter bushings.
Here is picture of cases for primer
comparisons.1st is regular bmg
primer. 2nd is adapted to a shotgun primer.
3rd is adapted to large rifle primer.
Of the 2 adaptations, large rifle is
easier to do, just ream out pocket, thread in adapter, but adapting shotgun primer
you have to deepen the original primer
pocket a little, then thread and screw in
a bushing.These two primers give about
100 fps less than bmg primer.Ed.



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 22 July 2006 at 13:50

Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr
hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25.
Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.

 

Got 600gr to 3250, 14,000 ft lbs, ball powder load.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Kingpin
Date Posted: 22 July 2006 at 14:15
Got one on the bench as we speak, however, I think it needs a double shotgun to do it justice......................Kingpin

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There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 24 July 2006 at 15:21

Kingpin-They are a neat case. Your right about

being great for a double Paradox gun.

Testing Savage with long case-Got 2550 with
320gr WC-855H special ball.730 gr slug.
Same slug,
300gr of RL-25 got 2400. 300 gr of RL-22
got 2800. 280 gr of W-760 ball got 2900.
Will hold more 760, but pressures around 40k on last
two loads mentioned.Savage extracts easy,
bellers like a tank gun.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 03 August 2006 at 15:53
We are having a group buy of 1000 gr soft jacketed
bullets for 12ga from Hawk. $2.10 each.Contact
me for details.Need order of 1000 total for them to
make dies and start.Got commitment for 400
already.Let me know if interested.We are getting
a 1887 12ga lever gun to test our cases in.Ed.

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 24 August 2006 at 14:17

Got a 1050 gr Bridger slug over 2200 in the Savage. These were a 750 gr that Bridger made for me with hollow base so I could add weight, got wt to 1050 gr.

We get questions about recoil.
My Savage is a pussycat being heavy
relative to the loads..

.Now Rob's Borchardt loads gets exciting...
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 02 September 2006 at 23:43

We got 1887 12ga levergun here to test. Has 2 & 3/4
inch chamber and we will test with our cases cut back and
with Rocky Mtn cases.Here is pic.Neat gun.Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 15 September 2006 at 19:02
I got Rocky Mtn turned 12ga cases, and am
developing loads. They are 2 7/8 inches
long are for use in NEF and shortened
in 1887. These cases have shotgun
primers. Now these cases with shotgun primers and the two cases of ours we put small primers in don't fire the slow rifle powder loads
reliably,like cases with bmg primers.
Our testing is with 600 hardened Dixie slugs.
So I have and am testing slow shotgun powder and fast rifle.I tested 5 shotgun powders and
the primers fires then ok but the quick peak pressure when loads increased to get velocity
wanted in NEF caused too much case expansion just ahead of the base.Cases ejected ok but
that expansion and resizing will ruin cases
in a couple shots.These cases have a real thick base, and are machined to glass smooth finish.Nice cases.
I now testing AA1680 Ball and RE-7 and they look good.
Have got loads  with 2 wads in
the Rocky Mtn case, and only .002 expansion
of case ahead of base. Will chrono next and
expect it to get velocity we want in NEF.
Nice thing about this testing is that similiar loads will work
in shortened 87 case by just
using less wad column.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 16 September 2006 at 07:43
Ed, This stuff is really neat. Please keep on posting it and excuse the lack of replies as I, for one, have no experience to relate to with something like this. Have you ever had a pressure meter/strain guage hooked up to these to see what the pressure curve looks like? Just wondered how it compares to 3.5" 12 guage. RD

-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: Apollyon67
Date Posted: 18 September 2006 at 15:06
Ed. this is great stuff and very interesting, thanks for sharing your info with us.
ps. I love the Winchester lever action shotgun.


-------------
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin.


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 07 October 2006 at 21:03
Got the NEF chambered for long case. And remember it
has beefed up hammer for bmg primers used in our case.
Got 2500 fps with 600 gr slug, cases eject out real easy,
8300 ft lbs from an NEF with 24 inch barrel.If you set up
NEF to use regular primers adapted to our case or
have Rocky Mtn make a long case you can do it without
a lot of work on the hammer and springs. Just use a
flake shotgun powder as a starter powder above the
primer, which how 700 NE and others are loaded.
Use 10 gr of flake and cut regular load 40 gr and
work up if pressures allow.Ed.


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 08 October 2006 at 13:57
Ed, Ever consider the Benelli Nova Pump gun for one of these? It's got 3 rotating locking lugs similar to a rifle. I wonder if the plastic frame could take it. RD

-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 10 October 2006 at 20:06

Rockydog- A guy named Lefteris in Greece is rigging up

a Nova to use a 3" version of our case or a turned brass

3 inch case.I looked at the prints of the action, he sent me

and it should work with heavy alloy barrel.. Lookinga at]

pictures of the Saiga 12ga with turned bolt style locking

lugs. They may work with heavy barrel.Ed.



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 17:47
Been testing IMR-4759. No ignition problems.
Ignition is instant with regular primers.
Don't need Blue Dot starter powder,
like we had to do with RE-7 and RE-15
for good reliable ignition.We did 4759 in
plastic cases first.600 gr slug. I got a
nice working roll crimper attachment
for drill press for crimping slugs.
That sure makes it easy, and perfect crimp.
In 2 & 3/4 plastic cases with loaded
length of about 2.35 inches got to 80gr.
That's max as you must leave room for
about 3/8 wads or cushion wad. Some cases
may only hold 75 grains max due to
the case construction.Powder is less dense
than RE-15. 1650 plus fps in 24 inch barrel.
In 3 inch cases, loaded length about 2.6
inches, got to 95 grs max, 1800 plus fps.
Some cases may only hold 90 gr due to
case construction. Cushion is
a half inch felt wad or equivalent.
Both lengths start down and go up
if pressures allow. 60 gr short case,70 long.
This powder being faster than RE-15 you must
have a little cushion in the way of felt wads
or plastic cushion wads.With slower RE-15
a card wad works ok as powder started slower.
The powder burning must build pressure
to open crimp without a to high pressure spike.
This bulky powder with reliable ignition
is a winner.Then we tested 3" Rocky Mtn brass
cases, Got max load of 105 gr, and 1900 plus
fps. In few weeks will get the 4759 and RE-15
loads pressure tested.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 28 October 2006 at 11:19

Now these loads are for only heavy barreled
steel action guns like the NEF Ultra 12,
or like my Savage with heavy barrel added.
I am getting heavy barrel on the 87 and
it will be long.There are some turn bolt
locking lug pumpguns that would work
with heavy barrels.There is a large
12ga Tula bolt action, but it's not imported.
This week if weather allows(no rain)
I will be firing first test loads of my
700HE long belted case.Ed.



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 16:35

Found an O/U that would handle the 4759 3"
loads. It is the Zoli Z-Sport. Expensive,
all alloy steel construction, tested to
about 100k. That's not a missprint.Their
site shows testing at the Italian proof house
of 8000 bar.That's 7-8 times regular shotgun
working loads.Pic of action below. It handling that extreme pressure, means that other quality
O/U like Ruger may handle 4759 loads.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 05 November 2006 at 11:01
I get questions about whether the IMR 4759
loads aren't to high pressure.Even for NEF.
Well in Nef the REM factory Buckhammer
slug load, expands the base of the case
more than my 90gr, 4759 load. And I get
more speed, in the same kind of
Rem case.And pressure testing will tell us
for sure what we have wrought..Ed.


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 12 November 2006 at 18:54
Hot Damn- Test Results of 4 plastic cases.
Rem high base 3" case, with 600 gr
Dixie hardened slug. Roll crimped with
crimper in drill press. All 4 loaded with
90 gr of 4759. We have a winner.
Average velocity of 4 -- 1938 fps
Average pressure of 4 -- 14, 575 psi.
tested with transducer test ing setup,
in 30 inch barrel,In my 24" NEF I got 1800+.
Cases fell out of his test chamber like they did out of
my NEF.And with some cases I can get in 95gr,
that I figured with my math would
have 15k psi.So my math and developement is
OK.And 4800 ft lbs, thats neat with plastic.
Tom says this load will do in any gun that handles
the 2 oz factory magnum goose loads
that test about 13,600 to 14,000.And 4759
will give slower time to peak pressure, thus
will be easier on cases than magnum goose loads
or the hot factory Buckhamer slug loads
I fired, that expanded cases as much or more
than our 4759 loads.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 21 November 2006 at 16:31
Buckhammer 3 "factory loads are 15k psi.
A 2.75 inch case with 80 gr of 4759, a thin card wad,
a 3/8 cushion lubed felt wad, when crimped is about
2.4 inches long, with 600gr Dixie slug. Based on
pressures recorded in previous post for 3 inch case
and 90gr of 4759, they will run about 13,400 psi,
and work through modern guns.Another load tested with
same bullet, 65gr of 4759, tested at same place
was 11,800 psi and 1640 fps. So you don't have
to put in my max loads, but go down a
little and use in modern guns that
are lighter than NEF so they don't kick so bad.But yet
you can get fairly good energy levels for big game, 3300
to 4000 ft lbs of energy.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 27 November 2006 at 17:44
Some research. Anyone with a Mauser converted
to 12ga shotgun can fire our 4759 loads.
One was the GEHA, other REMO. The locking lug for bolt is the rear safety lug and if you wanted an extra lug do an Ed on the bolt
handle base to make contact between bolt handle and bolt handle recess.They are not long enough
for our full length case, but came with 2 3/4"
chamber and magazine.Were 2 shot large ring
converted military mausers.Studying this gun lead me to the idea that a fancy 12ga with 3" chamber could be made by the same thing that Germans did to the Mauser to make GEHA. Just use
a S&L, Colt Sauer, etc, with rear locking lugs.
Grind out inside diameter of action from rear reciever forward so 12ga case will feed, Rear of bolt will still center ok as lugs and metal
are there. The silver solder combination guide extension to support 12ga case on the left side
of bolt, and put extractor on right side.
Like a Sako or whatever.Face off the recess on front off bolt flat, Put in 12ga barrel with chamfers to clear
extractor.A 788 Rem
may work, at least with a 2.75" case.
For repeater action, Open mag
well to hold a single stack of 1 or 2
12ga cases.Fancy gunwrighters badmouthed
the GEHA, but geese hunters just loved them,
as they handled heavy loads fine. Ed.


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 01 December 2006 at 04:26
I have also found that the rear locking lug
idea will work with an Enfield, and it would
long enough for our long case with little
work. Work long case as singleshot.
Work as single stack repeater with 3" 12ga.
The bolt handle base would be one lug, and is quite large, which would be stronger than
goose guns built same way.The
left locking lug woud get a bite out on
its end if front was bored out to .900,
tp allow feeding of 12ga case.
But I found a way to add extra lug in the back by opening sight recess that is in rear bridge
down through to bolt raceway, mill groove on left for lug to turn into that
opening and mill square recess into bolt and add lug on left.Result 2.5 lugs, with enough
strength to hold 30k plus loads easily.
Ream out front of action. Barrel threads are
as big as Savage, little more than Mauser.
Face off front of bolt flat.Add pin in ejector
cutout to support case opposite extractor.
The original lugs will guide for feeding.
Screw in heavy 12ga rifled barrel.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 10 December 2006 at 04:19

We are working to make a big falling block action for our

case by scaling up a nice looking action.

Here is picture of top part of the
first scale-up model, next to smaller
Wickliffe. It has 12GA FH round in feed
trough. It is aluminum just for a model.
It will handle 12GA FH, 700HE, 700NE, 600NE,
etc. Bottom of block is flat to set on
mill table to do the machining.Next machining
will be the hole and slot down through the
action for breech block and hammer to
slide up and down in.Its taken awhile to
get some tooling.I had none when we set up
vertical mill, and have to get more.The
action model also will be narrowed up when
finished, and contoured to look as good
as the Wickcliffe.Ed.

 




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 04:38
Tested the Wickcliffe with 12ga FH case
in a temperary chamber, just primer, to see if
hammer with beefed up spring would fire
bmg primers.I scalloped out the back
of the action so 12ga cases would feed
into the action and temp chamber
They fired ok. But the extra stiff spring
makes it hard to cock. We will have to work
on that.The original Wickcliffe
action that we want to scale up is tall
enough so that when breech block is
lowered the block clears the bottom
a 12ga rim when cases slide out of chamber.
So in the scale up we need to just add a
a little width for wider breech block,
and the bigger barrel thread, and keep the
sides thick for strength.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 31 December 2006 at 17:35
Fired couple 3.5" cases with 90gr
4759 and 460 grains of buckshot,
14 number 1 buckshot.Fired in nef,
pattern huge due to rifling, even with
shotcup. They were going 2000 fps plus,
and went through 1/8 steel on end of
stand. Ignition perfect, extracted easy.
In smoothbore be a real hairy load.
With three 3.5" plastic cases with
100gr 4759, 600gr slug. Used .135 card wad,
a 1/2" and 1/4" felt wads. 1900+ fps
in 24" NEF barrel, same low pressure as
the 3" cases we pressure tested. I have NEF
chamber lengthened for our longer
brass case so it does 3 & 3.5" also. A nice
 long barrel we'd have 2050 plus.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 09 January 2007 at 13:57

Here is pictures of the breech, lever,
linkage, etc, set up on a block to
get the geometry for the scaleup model working
ok.And setup measurements to make the breech
hole in the action, in right place.Also used
this model to get hammer and trigger set
up to ride on the breech block. With
a strong hammer and trigger in the right
place in the guard.In the pics above you see the pin the
lever pivots on. The actions being bigger
will be wider than the levers;So the space on the
pivot will be taken up by the Ruger
style extractor on the left side and a spacer
on the right side. Spacer also acts as a
breech block stop at the bottom of the
breech travel.So to get block stopped at
right position for the diameter of the case
and feed trough, we adjust spacer size.
Ruger extractors from GP changed
a little bit will do.Ed.




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 24 January 2007 at 08:09

Here is sectioned action with parts in.
Original action that had defects
that I sectioned down the middle..I
ground out the top to allow case
to set higher, representing a
the taller action that we will
have due to larger diameter cases.
That lever in the picture is the
lever we will use with longer stroke.
Also in the action layout is the
breechblock, hammer, trigger with a
12GA FH in front, all in to check layout.
This lever looks to be easier to fit
and shape to bigger action and stock,
with a good pistolgrip to handle recoil.
Lever shape fits where trigger is better.Ed


 

 



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 31 January 2007 at 17:44

I will be posting more research on this thread
about other powders in 12ga plastic cases,about the
12GA FH loads, about scaled up falling blocks, my 700HE long
belted case, and the 28GA FH.Here is picture of
some other cartridges I have with some of mine.
1st= 408CT, 2nd- T-rex necked to 416- 3rd- 600OK
4th- 510HE, 5th-585HE, 6th-700H 3.25, 7th-12GA FH,
8th-700HE. Last most powerful. Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 07 February 2007 at 16:20

Here is pic of the first finished model
breech block for scaleup model. You
hammer and trigger in the back of
the block. Ed

 



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 17 February 2007 at 14:00

Another shotgun/rifle experiment is 28ga FH.
Rocky MTN is making me some
3.25 in 28ga cases. They are good to 38k psi.
That will get 500-550 gr out at 2500 in
bolt action.A regular 28ga gun may get to
2000, depending on how heavy barrel is.Should
average 17-1800. Just lengthen chamber.
Get a NEF Ultra cut off leaving breech section
for monoblock and have 28ga rifled barrel
made and screwed or soldered in monoblock.
And being able to hold 38k to match brass,
That would get 2500 fps loads.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 03 March 2007 at 11:37

Here is picture of the first falling block
model of aluminum, with a roughed out
stock to see how it looks. Action is a
rough model. It shoulders nice, and
lever is inlet into pistol grip,
so you can't get banged up
fingers with the big cartridges it is designed
for, like levers that stick down at the
guard.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 10 March 2007 at 08:52

Here is pic of action model with lever open
and the breech block down. Also the action
will have a slot in the top rear for a
top tang of whatever length you need.
Can even add a long tang for tang sights.Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 23 March 2007 at 14:59

Here is pic of a double that I will put
barrels in, monoblock style, using the breech
section for the monoblock. This one will be
for 28GA FH. May get another same size for
my 510HE. I will be able to run full pressures
with these.....I am trying to find a bigger,
heavier one to put 12GA FH in. I want
heavier one so as to run pressures like my
Savage as a minimum.Ed.



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 11 April 2007 at 11:55
Had question about locking RMC cases onto
lead slugs, as they don't crimp into the
grooves well as sharp bend works thick
mouth. First I resize tight and slightly bell
mouth.Insert slugs which take a little pressure.
Then I use a die with slightly more
taper and swage the mouth into slug, like
the fit you get with bottleneck cases.
Same deal works with our long cases made
from BMG brass.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 13:05
Preliminary testing with VV N-110 powder shows
it works with small primers like the 4759 powder,
in plastic cases. Perfect ignition like the 4759.
Starting loads are 60 gr min like 4759 for good
ignition,600gr slug. In 2 & 3/4" plastic full load is 75gr
with card and 1/4" cushion wad.In Nef 24" bbl 1700fps.
In 3" plastic 87gr, card and 3/8" wad, 1800 plus.
In RMC brass case. 100gr, card and 1/2 wad 1900 plus.
All running same safe pressures as 4759 lab tested.
So that is two powders that are slower than shotgun
powders, and much safer to work with for regular
primers, giving at least 20% more velocity. Ed

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 29 April 2007 at 17:44
Along with the two slower than shotgun powders, IMR 4759
and VV N110 that ignite reliably with shotgun primers,
that are easier to load for slugs, in heavy bbl can
get 20% plus more velocity, I've found another. It is
IMR 7383 $3 a lb surplus. Tested plastic 3" cases, perfect ignition with regular primers. 8 types of cases,600gr slug
starting load 100gr. Full load 140gr giving 1800 fps plus
in 24" bbl NEF.With loads halfway between start and full
didn't even have to resize to shoot again.Full load just has
a card wad under slug in 3" plastic.Wad just tight on
charge, as no extreme compression of powder needed.
 Will do heavier slugs and
RMC brass cases. Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 08 May 2007 at 05:47
Tested 730g with 7383. Perfect ignition.Extracts easy.
130gr gives 1650 plus fps in 3" plastic.
Tested 800g slug with 7383 in plastic.Works good.
Have question about different cases and dies.
The RMC cases use a shotgun primer, thus they have
a real thick base. They are not a thin headed,
balloon headed case, and RMC makes sides thick
enough for regular 12ga wads.
But in a break action the 3" plastic cases
with our 4759, VV110, 7383 loads are close to RMC in
power. Can buy a hundred plastic for price of one RMC.
3.5" chamber 12ga with plastic is as good as RMC for 3"
And if I shot RMC in Savage to get more power,
which I could do as far as the firing process,
the expansion above the base, due to being a turned case
would make extraction stiff, causing extractor to
damage rim. A turned rim will not take what
a drawn one will. Rcbs set should do RMC easy.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 08 June 2007 at 06:46
Tested 870gr hard slug with 7383 in 3"
plastic. Over 1500 fps in NEF short barrel.
I wish it had a longer 32" barrel..........
The folks at 50 Cal suggested we write up a
piece on the 12GA FH. Interested in what we
did to make hairy cartridge using 50 cal brass
adapted to the 12 gauge shotgun platform.
A job for Rob to do? His wild idea has been
viewed about 400,000 times in the forums
we put it in.Ed

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 29 June 2007 at 15:13
Found another powder that works with small
primers in plastic and RMC cases, w/600gr slug.
It is IMR 4227. Ignition perfect, same load
levels and velocities as 4759.

Powders slower than shotgun type, that ignite
properly with small primers(shotgun-lg rifle);
we found 4759, VV-110, 4227, 7383 surplus,
the latter a slow powder that also works
with real heavy slugs Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 07 July 2007 at 18:42
Pressure tested 7383 with heavy powder load.
870 gr with 128 gr of 7383-- All that could
be put in REM plastic and keep length to what
would feed from magazine of a 3" gun,
after it was roll crimped with tool in drillpress.
1513 fps-- 14700 psi. That is a slug 50%
heavier than factory Buckhammer at little
faster speed and at little less pressure.
Ignition perfect, cases fall out.
Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 08 July 2007 at 16:23

ED, At 125 grains per load I bet that $3.00 stuff looks pretty good. RD



-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 02:50

RD-Yes it's good deal and case is full so

don't have to worry about overloads.

Even with the heavier slugs.

You could load with lee dip cups.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 14 July 2007 at 16:49

Finally able to make the
longer barrel improvement on
the 1887 12ga levergun.......
Rifled and heavy and 31"
long. After many months finally got
a barrel.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 07:57
With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug
in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps,
with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600.
Expansion on cases show little more pressure
as full loads of 4759 and 600gr.
Ignition perfect with small primers.
Ejects cases fine. Burns clean.
Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier
rifled barrel on to test. Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 29 July 2007 at 16:22
Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long
brass case with big primer.I have NEF
with extra  hammer spring  for big primer.
Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case.
Would do little more, extractor needs
to be wider and set up positive.
Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro.
Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc.
That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to
2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go
light or heavy.Ed

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 15 August 2007 at 18:28

More testing with 4227. Greg got little over 1500 fps in
3" plastic with 870 gr slug using 74-75 gr of 4227.
I did the same. This compares to much lighter
REM Buckhammer slug, we have more speed. Almost all
the way through 5 ft bundle hardwood boards.
I have Mossy 695 as well as GEHA 12 gauge
to put heavy rifled barrels on. And my 87.
Will be checking Mossy 395
for a guy who wants to put on
a heavy barrel.Here is pic of 695 bolt action
Mossberg with dinky barrel and the heavy long
rifled barrel for it.  Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 03 September 2007 at 14:11

Tested in NEF 3" cases, Alliant 2400 with
small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when
case cooled there was majority of misfires
and squib loads. Don't reccomend it..
Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action
GEHA next to a heavy barrel like I will put
on it Make a good slug gun. It has thinnest

12ga barrel I've ever seen.Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 13 September 2007 at 16:11
The 12GA From Hell, 700HE, and
700HE 3.25" is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Recent news says
H&H is going to build Paradox
Shotgun/Rifles again...Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611 - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 13 September 2007 at 17:44
Ed, Congrats on the listing. Not many guys get their own wildcat. RD

-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 03 October 2007 at 14:36
We tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is lengthened for our
long brass case, so they work fine.....
With 600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from
plastic shotgun cases.Ed

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 03 October 2007 at 15:26
Ed, I saw an ad in Shotgun News for Mossberg SSI 12 guage guns in a variety of styles including rifled slug barrels. Wouldn't this make a pretty tough ready built action for your application? They were at close out prices as this gun never really took off. RD

-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 16:34

Rockydog-- The SSI with rifled barrel, from pictures I've

seen showing the thickness of the barrel, would work for

our 3" plastic case loads. Moderate loads using IMR4759,

VV-N110, and IMR4227, with 600gr slug. I like the style

of thw SS!, but wish they had a longer real heavy barrel.ED



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 20 October 2007 at 17:54

Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG
size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt
handle and another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs
still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown
Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98
Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for
my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun.
Loads up to 825 gr at 2500.Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 25 October 2007 at 18:31

The three From Hell cartridges----
My 28GA FH,  2nd Our 12GA FH,  can
you guess the 3rd?. What do readers think. Ed

 



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 26 October 2007 at 17:39
It is the 8GA From Hell, a real cartridge. 4.3 inch long
brass case.  8 ga shorter plastic case, plan on in same chamber.
The brass kiln gun case isn't as long as mine. Where do
you find the rare 8 ga brass kiln gun cases.
Looking now for guns or actions and barrels. I make it
from 20mm Suzy brass(20mm Hispano Suiza), by putting
on a 8ga size rim and reshaping like we did 12GA FH....Ed

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 04:36

8ga, we gonna do a couple, first one a test
gun in an Enfield with rear locking lugs added.
All locking is in the rear, it is not exactly like
my 700HE one,as both lug seats gone in the
front like a Mauser 12ga shotgun.
May have a way to get barrels 'fast'---
fast being like 2 weeks, from the time I
have money to do it. And only about
150 bucks each.......Am working on it.
In pic you see long case sticking out of
the action, a couple 8ga plastic cases, a
couple of the 8ga kiln slugs, 3 oz and
hardened. Am looking for a slug built like the
Federal 10 ga one that has rounded nose and
hollow base, that fits bore tight, for smoothbore.
The barrels I am working deal on will be smoothbore.Ed

 


 



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 10 November 2007 at 06:22

Howabout this Long Tom slug gun from our
short barrel Win 87.....Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 19 November 2007 at 15:59

Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel. We setup an Enfield for 8ga.
In the 87 long barreled gun we will be testing
Breneke slugs. Guys are reporting good accuracy
in smooth and rifled barrels. The pictured barrel
on 87 is smooth and we will see how the
slugs in pic stand some speed.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 30 November 2007 at 19:15
Tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
This is a heavy barrel for that type of load,
don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 13 December 2007 at 16:27
In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed
And going heavier in 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 15:31
10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. Factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
Federal factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave 1750 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. We roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic.Used one .050 wad.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 05 January 2008 at 04:26
In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 09 January 2008 at 13:50

Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action  Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 13 January 2008 at 16:37

28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just to show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 18 January 2008 at 16:53

Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads,
used in little cannons for bomb work.
Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED

http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif - http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 03:26

I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for
my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now.
It is a straight belted case, .700 cal.
Should get the same energy levels as
the 12GA From Hell case in same action.
In pic is 700H case in the action.
There is guy building a 600 Nitro
in 210 also. Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 06 February 2008 at 08:50
28GA FH research. Guy on forums suggested using 54cal
rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into
it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet
about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy.
You got to use the thick heavy ones also, being stronger.
And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads
from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use
these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs.
But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there
stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to
450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is
great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with
velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's over 6500 ft lbs.
The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by
sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore
as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels
go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560"
There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes,
so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits..
And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass
match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work.
And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic
to making long barrels. Oh, I've shot one MRC case 15 times and
still going strong...Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 12 February 2008 at 07:11
28GA FH testing. 405 gr in 2.75" plastic case
got 1400. Tested the Great Plains 54cal
lubed slug, runs from 2200 to 2700. It is
by Hornady and its front band actually measures
.550" and hollowbase. They hit target straight.
Got a bunch of 415gr hollowbase coming that
are 548" from Dixie Gunworks. Only 26 cents each.
All will work in plastic or long brass
case. I found another .550 bbl and coming, and
it will go on a Mossberg bolt action
for the second 28GA FH to test.. Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 19 February 2008 at 15:06
tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell
that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run
about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight
fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them
in the grooves. They are a little harder alloy slug than
the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder
for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from
RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies
Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for
sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut
top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't
even have to have the bottom half sized, which
is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases
we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we
don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 29 February 2008 at 15:19

Here is picture of a jacketed hollowpoint
12ga slug a fellow is going to make for us.
We hope to have tooling set up this summer
we plan on. Next to it is a 600gr Dixie hardened
slug. First ones he will probably make will
be about 700-750 gr.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 11 March 2008 at 14:58

In the 87 Win Levergun, smooth barrel,
long barrel, using brass RMC 3" cases,
1 oz Brenneke KO slug to 2700 with 4227
powder. Shotgun primer. I will be getting
some 3.5" RMC brass that he will put a special
longer corner radius in, to allow faster loads
with less case expansion and easier resizing.
Should get same slug to 3000 and resize
easier also. With shotgun primer able to use
4227, and you WON"T have to rework hammer
or firing pin to do big primers.

Santa sent me 9 more PROP cases used in little
cannons for bomb disposal. Got 12 now.Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 30 March 2008 at 15:15
THE 8GA FH BELLERED TODAY. It is in Enfield I rigged with
rear locking bolt lugs. 32" barrel, tested 3.3" plastic cases.
Cases are the REM kiln gun cases. With the double cup base.
I shaved base a little so that chamber will fire these as well as
regular 8ga plastic. None of the firing today expanded base cups
at all, so they are real strong cases. Started testing to check
ignition with shotgun primers and to see if cases are any
good. Starting with a 110 gr mouse ball, wad under it, and 150 gr
of Blue Dot, about 5000 fps.. Gun didn't even recoil.Then a
410 gr one at 3000 fps, Then a 770 gr hollowbase slug in a wadcup
up to 2000 so far with 180gr of 7383. Barrel is smoothbore. 832"
bore at the muzzle. Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 19:31

8GA FH testing- using IMR 4759, 770 gr slug,
top load of 140 gr, got 2500 fps......
Over 10,000 ft lbs..Cases extract easy.
Here is picture of Enfield 8GA FH. You can see plastic case
in the port. Box of cases behind, 770 gr and 1050 gr
slugs in front with the 8ga wadcups I use.
Left two slugs are 1050 gr made from 3 oz kiln slugs.
I rounded nose and put in hollow base. Also the
cards and fiber wads used. Slugs are hollowbase, as
it is smooth bore barrel. Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 17:07

Here is picture on left of the 12ga hollowpoint slug
with plastic tip. Makes it streamlined, good for 300yds.
And still will expand good thin skinned game-deer.
I put tip in with glue gun in few seconds, and
shaped a point on it with trim knife. Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 14:54

I also have two other cartridges with my name
on them that I am promoting. They are my 700HE
and my 585BHE. They both belted straight cases.
Montana Rifle company is coming out with their
big PH action and some guys will be doing my
cases in them.
Info on the 585BHE. It will work in
any gun that handles 505 Gibbs like Enfield, CZ,
Ruger,etc.Mine is in Enfield.On left in picture
is one next to puny Trex. And mine holds 15gr more
powder than that Trex case. 585BHE will do 750
grain from 1800 to 2800 fps in my Enfield.
Anyone interested setting up a gun, contact me
I will furnish reamer and 15 free cases. Cases are
headstamped. When done return reamer to me, for
the next guy. I will keep them sharpened. After a
few guys have guns we all will get together with
others wanting some and get a run of brass made.
These cases are all drawn high pressure brass.
I'd like guys to ask for reamer when gun is going
to be ready to chamber, that way reamers get the
most guns done in shortest time.Ed




-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 30 April 2008 at 19:47
On Fri May 2 8pm on the Science Channel ,they will have
an article about the heavy barrel cannons that shoot
the brass cases for bomb disposal.They are the same as
our 12GA FH case,when resized in my dies and are shown
in this thread a couple months back in picture.
It will show them using them for bomb disposal. Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 18:21

Testing 8GA FH in Enfield, 1050 gr slug in wad cup, 120 gr
of 4759, over 2000 fps. Cases extract easy. Hardly any
base cup expansion..Here is picture of a
sectioned 8ga plastic case I did,
showing how heavy and strong it is built. The
plastic is one piece compressioned formed and
the sides of the cases are twice as thick as
12ga cases.You can see the double thickness
of the base cup. Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 18:18

Here is picture of the bolt setup for the 8ga
Enfield we did.Also comparison to a Mauser
12ga shotgun bolt conversion, from which
I got the concept. Ed



-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 31 May 2008 at 05:41
I  was asked how I got 8ga heavy barrel so quick.
First it is smoothbore, second a 110 bucks total shipping and all.
First I bought a 1.5 inch dia 4130 alloy, heat treated, shaft,
32" long. Then I had a deep hole drilling company drill
a .832" hole in it. Came out centered on both ends.
Then after it got here I used cylinder hone to polish
the inside of the bore. Threaded it, chambered it, and put
in the Enfield bolt action. The heat treating it has is just like
the barrel stock that barrel guys get. Ed.

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 12 June 2008 at 18:06
For those wanting to see video of the 12GA FH in
the Savage busting big pail of water, one of the
kids posted it on Youtube- Titled "Grampa's Cannon".
I just found out that it is on there.
This was the video that the still pictures posted
before, was taken from. They have the sound
muted so as not to hurt camera sound system. Ed


-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 17:14
Load of 12 triple ought buckshot in 8ga. They are
70gr each, total 840 gr, and over 2000 fps with
125 gr of 4759. Ed
Here is URL for the waterpail busting video above--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNHszY4ACM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNHszY4ACM

-------------
Ed Hubel


Posted By: Rockydog
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 13:00
Ed, I watched the video, cool. Doesn't look like you were enjoying yourself though.     RD

-------------
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: hubel458
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 03:35
There are now two videos of 12GA FH on YouTube,
exploding big heavy walled pails of water.
The  "Grampa's Cannon" one with a long view,
and  "Grandpa's First Shot"  a  closeup
video,
the first one, that shows how the top of heavy
shelf got bent. Later kids will do
videos showing
muzzle blast and recoil.
 Also the 3 ought buckshot from the 8ga load
above goes through 2" hardwood ok. I will test
8ga on waterpail also, to see what happens. Ed


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Ed Hubel



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