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New Shooter - Home Defense

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dfletcher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfletcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Shooter - Home Defense
    Posted: 20 December 2005 at 14:55

A friend of mine wants to purchase a gun for home defense.  He was long ago a police officer and has a basic understanding of firearms.  His wife is what I refer to as a California Republican" which is to say she accepts, but is not enthusiastic, about her household having a gun.  Having gotten the OK and getting a gun lock & small safe (small kids present) in place a gun acceptable to the wife and suitable for home defense must be found.  And there's the challenge. 

They have a large house in the outer burbs - fairly rural for California - so apartment wall penetration is not an issue.  A folding stock shotgun might do well, but the wife doesn't like the big gun look.  A folding stock centerfire might work but California thinks they're evil.

So we're down to handguns.  No semi auto, he doesn't want to worry about maintaining, jamming or good mags versus bad mags.  I know it's sometimes difficult for we shooters to look at firearms as a novice would, but doing so he wants a revolver.

The wife likes little 38s.  My position is a little 38 is a no go for home defense and the challenge is this: what revolver out there is better than the 38 but no so large as to scare the wife?  My thoughts go to an S & W 21 in 44 Special or the Taurus Tracker.  Also, anyone of the poor married souls out ther who has triumphed over a similar problem and has advice fo a single guy on convincing the wife - please respond! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2005 at 16:06
 I bought a .38 just for that purpose. First and foremost she needs to feel comfortable with it. IMO  a +P load will be effective on two legged varmints.  I chose a Taurus ultra lite double action. It's not a S&W but it works and I'm not a snob in regards to pistols . I've always felt if a person isn't completely comfortable with a gun they shouldn't have one. Confidence is as important as cartridge in many cases. You could always buy a 357 and shoot 38's for practice and slip in the 357's when you get home. Don't tell her and she'll never know and certainly won't notice if she ever finds herself in a postion to have to use it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2005 at 16:45

Dfletcher;

A Smith 66 .357.  Don't tell her it's a .357, let her see .38's loaded into it.  Then stuff it with .357's & good to go.  She'll never know about that extra 1/10th of an inch. 

Put it in a touch-pad Gunvault hung under the bedslats & nobody will ever know it's there.

900F

Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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dfletcher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfletcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2005 at 17:49
Sorry, I didn't make clear that the wife is not going to use the gun.  The concern about looks I guess is that she doesn't want husband coming home with a model 29 with 8 3/8 bbl.  I know it's not rational but that's what i have to deal with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dakotasin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2005 at 01:32

s&w 586/686 fits your criteria perfectly and is what i have for my bedside gun. i trust it absolutely.

a barrel w/ a little extra length will be more accurate for part-time shooters, so look for something in the 4-5" range.

Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2005 at 02:11

If it isn't CC, I'd go with a 38 S&W  or a Ruger GP.

For any shot "in the house" the 38 is more cartridge than would be needed.  Ammo is cheap and that makes practice more likely.  Practice is many times more important than cartridge selection.

If it is really rural, a 22 revolver (S&W K-22 model 17) with a 4 inch tube could be used to eliminate vermin.  Which is probably more likely than intruders. At close range a well placed 22 into a home invader is better than a muzzle blast from a short barreled 44 mag.

Just thoughts.

BEAR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triggerguard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2005 at 03:17

I don't see an issue with a .38 Special for home defense. Police trade in Smith & Wesson Model 10s are still advertised by several vendors in Shotgun News at pretty good prices.

I'm pretty comfortable with the .38 Special and modern, expanding bullets that actually expand. If you research some of the horror stories of the .38 Special's failure to stop badguys, many of the incidents involve the use of the century old 158 grain round nose lead bullet. Shotings using something along the lines of CorBon's 125 grain +P JHP are an entirely different story.

Antother possiblity is a Winchester or Marlin trapper length carbine in a handgun caliber. Lever action cowboy guns are acceptable to most people, even goofs like this guy's wife. Marlin's Camp Carbines, though out of production, look like .22 rifles, and are a good compromise as well.

"...A moral compass needs a butt end.Whatever direction France is pointing-towards collaboration with Nazis, accomodation with communists,...we can go the other way with a quiet conscience"-O'Rourke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2005 at 06:10

I know you ruled out a shotgun.  But the sound of cycling a pump shotgun in the middle of the night will clear your house of any intruders faster than teargas.

The Mossberg 500 is the best.....as it is the noisiestWink

BEAR



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dfletcher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfletcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2005 at 14:51

I'm OK with the 38, it's the want of a 2" barrel I find restrictive.  Went to the gun store and the Ruger SP 100, 3" in stainless 357 mag might work. 

Having been on the "Oh, Jesus" end of the 12 gauge pump I agree, that sound sure makes you stop & pay attention. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2005 at 01:26

2" barrels are very difficult to shoot, especially in light weight alloy frames.  .  a 3 inch heavy gun like the sp improves the shootability a good bit.  4" is about perfect for a bedroom gun, IMHO.

BEAR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2005 at 05:21
To keep things above board for kalifornia, and ease of operation, I invite your attention to a 20 ga remington 870. In the first case, folding stocks are exotic for non shooters and won't work well for them during a stressful situation. A sgotgun is about as close as it gets to actual "knock down power" even though I am not a proponent of that theory. Handguns require a lot of training to be proficient enough to protect yourself. Center fire rifles offer the over penetration quotient consistantly, as do some handgun rounds. Also practice is a requirement. Profieciency is a perishable comodity if you don't practice regularly. With the 20 ga pump, loaded with #9 shot, it will damage an intruder and depending on the range, fatal more often than not. Practice with a shotgun is a lot of fun and unless you are shooting clay birds, doesn't require a lot of practice. After all, a man is a LOT bigger than a clay bird. Keeping the shotgun magazine loaded, an empty chamber with the hammer dropped and the safety off is what I do, as it requires only to work the pump to be ready to go to war. I keep my 870 12 ga loaded with #9 shot for the afore mentioned over penetration problem. Slugs and buckshot have a tendency to penetrate walls with a high degree of hitting a significant other when shooting at an intruder. The folding stock issue is just a lot of wannabe cabbage patch commando. The 20 ga with the shortest barrel allowed (18" being the federal standard, and I don't know what your particular locality calls for) is very effective and compact with a hard stock. Keep in mind that though the "18 of barrel has one more number to go with it, and that is, the "26 overall length of the gun. Both numbers are the minimum. If kalifornia has other rules governing the shotgun, I don't know them and suggest that you get the information. If it is different, post it so we will all know, it's handy. I hope this helped, I realize that you asked a simple question and I went a little overboard with my answer. Keep us posted on what he chooses, as I would like to know. Thanks.............................Kingpin
There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfletcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2005 at 15:46

Just went to a local store with he & wife and the winner was an         S & W 624 with 3"bbl.  Given the wife's "big guns are scary" approach this is probably best compromise.  I pushed for a 625 in 45 ACP but the 4" underlug barrel spooked her. 

Re the overall length, we're also 26" overall on long arms.  Got to relate a funny, or forbidding story, depending on your take.

I was at the range last week near a fellow firing what looked like an M4 with collapsible stock.  Fired 10 rounds, took out the rear pin & tilted the upper forward, barrel down then fiddled around a bit - closed the rifle & fired 10 more rounds.

I'm of the "wood is good" type & tend towards bolt action & single shot rifles.  Have had no interest in M16 types since USAF.  Checked out the guy's rifle & it is an M16 (DPMS I believe) made for California only.  No removable box mag - has a follower assembly captive in the mag well with a solid bottom.  You have to break this thing open like a side by side shotgun to load.

Evidently California says it's OK to have the protruding pistol grip & collapsible stock so long as it's either a 22LR caliber or if centerfire no removable mag.  And I'd be careful about what constitutes a removable mag.  According to ATF my FN49 has a removable mag even though you need ascrewdriver to remove it and it flies into 3 pieces when you do.

I think in California we're all going to end up shooting muzzleloaders and soft bb.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2005 at 16:06
Once they get the next round on you, you'll be lucky to be able to own a slingshot, let alone a muzzle loader. Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, Hillary, and others are using kalifornia as a test bed to see what they can get away with. If they get kalifornia safe for everyone, the rest will be a futile attempt, as we in the other 49 happen to know that an armed society is a polite society. Never saw a DPMS like that or even heard of one. Sounds incredibly prohibitive to me, with high capacity mags too numerous to count, for my AR's, M1A's SIG's, Para Ords and others. I can't see how anyone can choose to live in such a prohibitive state, but there must be something to it, I guess.........................Kingpin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dakotasin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2005 at 16:47

i think it is called a 'fab-10' or somesuch.

Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2005 at 03:28

Let's think about this.  George W. has had his 2nd term election.  He is done in 3 years.  Seldom does the same party keep the office of president; especially with the war and the liberal media firing of rhetoric constantly.  So I for one will try to $$$ support a conservative ( almost surely the republican, even if I don't like him/her).  But I expect a liberal Dem will get in and take lots of congress with her.  So I'm reconciled to losing some gun rights, sadly.

What should we be buying now that will be forbiden in 5 years but we can grandfather in, if we get it now?

50 cal?

Semi-auto BG rifles?

Pistols?

Good bolt guns?

Scopes and sighting stuff?

 

BEAR

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triggerguard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2005 at 06:13
I'd invest in six inch PVC pipe, grease, and desicant pipes for that scenario.
"...A moral compass needs a butt end.Whatever direction France is pointing-towards collaboration with Nazis, accomodation with communists,...we can go the other way with a quiet conscience"-O'Rourke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GunsRme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2007 at 04:24
45 the one i have for home defence  GLOCK Model 30
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