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Let’s Talk 12GA From Hell

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hubel458 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2013 at 09:56

Here is picture of the group improvement a guy had shooting our

sabots in a real tight barrel. Actually an undersize barrel compared

to Savage and Nef barrels. Had a wide open group with shotgun

powder but made it much smaller using much more

of the slower 4759.

There is a guy now in Canada with our sabots for guys there and

other countries, and as well, he can ship back to here. He plans

on supplying the .58cal slugs also for the sabots if guys can't get

them or don't cast their own.......

Contact is- jeff.a.white at gmail.com

If things work out for him he plans on getting a bunch

our 585 cases imported for sales there

I got some factory 8ga kiln loads, 3 oz lead at 1800 in the long

barrel falling block. Got box of 25 to see how they compared to

the loads we set up.Our favorite is 900gr at 2300. in plastic case.

Here is picture of section 585HE case showing 4 pyrodex 54cal,

60gr equivalent pellets, with a 440 gr Minie bullet.

Actual powder wt is about 185gr....Goes about 2600.

Nice cloud of smoke and really bellers out of the slow twist barrel

barrel we set up for minies.....Top pellet tapered a little and fit

inside thr hollwbase of the bullet....Ed

Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2014 at 16:19

Another use for 58cal Minie Bullets would be to setup a 24ga FH.

Minie bullets cheap to cast and buy. We use the .575-.577" in our

12ga sabot, and the .585-.587 in my 585HE. And you could use

577 NE bullets also.

For those in shotgun only areas there is a way. You can get 2.5"

Magtech brass cases, but also you can set up a 3" chamber and use

577NE 3" brass. Grafs shows some under 4 bucks each. Cheaper

than getting them made. And if you set up chamber with shotgun style

forcing cone you could shoot shorter Magtech as well as plastic cases.

Reason to use 577 cases, they are stronger solid head, last forever,

and can be run higher pressures and still last forever.

You can get barrels, 58cal at Green Mtn I think. .We got some also.

AND the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more

will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14

that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks,

1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly

Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pictures soon.

Here are couple pictures of a 585HE gun a guy is doing with nice

walnut stock. Gun has extra bedding lug and accra-glassed.

It is an Enfield and has single stack magazine.

Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 January 2014 at 17:01

Here is picture of 24ga FH in the Mossberg bolt gun. On a

Mossy 390 frame, .585" heavy barrel, same as 24ga size.

Chamber is set up 3" with shotgun style forcing cone,

so it can use 2.5" plastic cases and 2.5" Magtech brass

cases with slugs or shot and for 3" cases we use 577NE

3" brass. Really make a hairy 24ga using the 440gr to

540 gr Minie bullets at 21-2400. If you take 540 Minie bullet

mould and leave out base pin you'd have a 650gr that

would do. All these bullets and slugs as well as jacketed and

turned 577/585 bullets work in 24ga as well as my 585HE.

And the smaller Minies work in our 12ga sabots. I keep

saying 58cal is where it is at, and there are more bullet and

slug choices in the .585 size, easy to find, than any other

caliber over 458. And Minies are like 40 cents each and

cheaper if you cast your own.

 

Here is picture .585" barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.

Most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks.

Others we have are the slow twist and smooth blanks...

In back some of the cases and die sets.

Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil

reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated ones with

the easy to grip, nice pistol grip.Has McGowen 26 inch barrels,

1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper

to .980 inch at the muzzle. Guys are doing more Enfields

and other actions through the winter. Ed

Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2014 at 06:05

Some guys in 12ga like to use the Magtech brass cases

but the cases being brass the sides are thinner than

plastic, and that makes loose fit in 12ga chambers.

And cases expand a lot with heavier loaded slug

loads, are harder to resize, wear out quicker.

But I found that .750 hollowbase 10ga slug fits

those cases and still chambers in regular 12ga.

chamber, it isnt a sloppy fit.

So If you have a 12ga smooth barrel with full length

backbore job, of .850" bore or bigger you could use

the Magtech brass and .850" size 10ga hollowbase slugs.

Now these .850" slugs won't go in a 12ga plastic case

and chamber in regular 12ga chamber.And you do not

fire them through 12ga regular size barrel.

Brett in MN used the a BPI AQ slugs in his full length

backbored 12ga and got fair accuracy as he said the wads

under slugs expanded a lot for a decent fit.

The 10ga slug shown in the 2.5 inch Magtech is 800 gr,

and .850" diameter. These cases will take magnum

pressure so you can get good speed, for what this short

case can hold.

It is too bad they don't make 3" and 3.5" versions.

These 2.5" cases are easier to find and much less than

others, so if needing brass ones you can rig up guns

to work with them. To build a new barreled gun in actual

12ga size, IE .729" bore, you'd make chamber to

minimum specs so cases don't over expand.

In the picture are 2 10ga slugs on right, like in the case,

and 2 12ga jacketed slugs and one 12ga lead slug left.ED

 

 

 

Here is the ytube URL again for our guy

shooting 585HE in his NEF----By mid summer we plan on a

pickup truck load of more 585HE cases coming in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypaUdwQGAc



Edited by hubel458
Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2014 at 20:43

Here is good simple system with big hollowbase slugs to stop

the skirts from deforming, I found that dense dow foam works

good, I was using glue gun but dow foam is easier, Just cut

plugs out of foam sheet and force into the base. Make a tight

fit, use spot of glue inside, glue that is for foam....

Trim off the foam flush..In picture is 10 ga 900gr slug.

How we get good 24ga plastic seals with protusion on

top that fits up inside 58cal Minie base, same bore as 24ga

and our 585HE. I get the 24ga seal by cutting apart the BPI

24ga Brush wad, getting two seals out of each.Works great

in plastic case giving a shorter column than other seals and

wads, so we can get in enough of our 4759 for good speed.

The 24ga idea is getting nicer all the time with

the variety of cheap 58cal slugs, and good 3" brass cases,

drawn cases, we didn't have to wait to get made.

And all kind of guns we can use, bolt 395 Mossbergs, single

shots of all kinds, Autos,, pumps. bolt action Savage,

even 1887 Win and Greener MKIII, bolt action JC Higgins. .

Here is picture Khan auto we setting up 24ga FH, it is 3.5"

model, has a 12ga barrel to change with. Being 3.5" it

feeds/ejects through lengthened port 3" brass 24ga cases we

made from 577NE brass. We rework back of the bolt for

slightly longer stroke.Ed

 

 

 

Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2014 at 18:41

Here is picture of 24ga cases, loads; and some slugs and seals.

Brass cases are 3", plastic cases are 2.5". Brass 3" can be loaded

to match 577NE power.

Here is of 24ga in an 87 Win, just test gun of mine. Uses same barrels

as our 585HE, This one has slow twist for Minie bullets.Our guys

have got supply of regular and slow twist barrels.

Here is picture of the first 585HE done and shooting in Australia.

It is owned by the poster, 'tankhunter' on the AR forums.

Built by his smith who has a reamer.

Guys there can get cases from Bertram, and there will soon be three

reamers there. There is a company there now making 585 barrels,

Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland.....Ed

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2014 at 17:56

Finally got back to forums.Been busy with 24ga FH and 585HE

and getting 585 cases made, as many as possible...

We are now working a bit with 24ga FH and here is picture

of it with our 585HE case. Both use same bullets/slugs, same

bore barrels. Main use difference, 24ga FH easy setup in break

actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.

Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds

458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that

was pulled out and they wouldn't stay in tight. Sabot was a loose fit

in 20ga, made for 20ga, but small, so I shrunk the bottom rib,

fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. Fits real tight to give

good resistance for good ignition.

Here is another 24ga/585 sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol

bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal ML. With 250 gr bullet in 585

will go about mach 4.

Here is easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber

coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect without being

too heavy if using that much lead.And coating keeps them quiet, and

we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2014 at 21:36

First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.

If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

 

I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an

extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga

one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger

than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one

on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2014 at 14:49

Here is picture of 585HE 100 cases loaded, CEB solid nose bullets

and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat

or wide hollowpoint. .

Here is picture of triball loads that fellows like for deer and hogs,

and just general tear em up fun, with using BPGS seal to improve

sealing under what are heavier loads. The balls are .600" and

315gr. each. The wadcup is a TUPRW123 that Precision sells.

I need a bunch of empty 3.5" 20ga plastic cases.

 

Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro

Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like, usually

set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga

size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid

shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses

off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,

to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of 24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went

eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short

cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the

577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,

then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"

and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet

of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet

diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns

and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed

and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider

was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all

over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a

24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and

reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And

stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing

the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding

reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.

The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are

about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.

We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,

with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,

break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug

goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.

Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed

to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles

energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel

gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the

actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.

So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.

.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga

and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

 

Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2014 at 13:21

Guys asking about using 585 CEB bullet in our 12ga super

sabot. Here is picture, We just took off the bottom band and couple

middle bands on the CEB and it fit perfect in our 12ga sabot,

which uses .575" slugs. Hollowpoint one pictured 700gr in the

sabot loaded in brass case. Can be used in plastic case with a

special made hollowed out long roll crimper.

Getting some more interest in our 585HE.

An application for our 585 HE is for guys with old military 14.5mm

PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5

cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases

being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes

like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel could get 650gr

spitzer bullet to about same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using

3 times as much powder. About 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.

Great possibilities for fun shooting. For tactical use in a place

where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where

steel cases are scarce. 100 of our cases do over 2000 reloads.

I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns, the

actions once sporterized are one of the longest for long cases. .

Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by

cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on

inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like

Ruger 77 handle, the one on the right . Something even a novice

like me can do.....

A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr

ones in our 24ga FH. That hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr

to 700gr depending on how much we cut off the back..

The 24ga FH brass case is nice complement to our 585HE,

for shotgun only deer hunters that want a .585" caliber,

and easy to find big bore bullets.... Ed

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2015 at 06:38

For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH

here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light

bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil

but a big bang and satisfaction. A 250 gr bullet would go about

mach 4 with a top load..

Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.

It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow

sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980". we got a

bunch of them and so does McGowen.

 

Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.

It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a

hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as

hard as copper jacketed softs pivtured. These in .575'' size would

work in our 12ga sabot..

But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they

can be fairly soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture

of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.

Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out.

Guys experimenting with multiple ball loads in 12ga wadcups, here is a

way to keep them together group wise.Ed

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2015 at 02:33
Here is picture of our NEF 12ga FH with Hogue Compstock.
It has the
recoiling cam and springs in the hollow butt plus some
weght,



Here is a variety of slugs and bullets that fit in the
12ga dangerous
game slug, lock on sabot. BPI sells that DG slug.

.

There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's
Facebook site;
Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in
Australia.It was set up
for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That
gun killed the
first AUS buff, killed by a 585HE, that I posted picture
of above. You can
go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch
the test firings..

https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI
stock, with the
style of a CZ stock and metal will be finished with a
Gun Kote finish.





Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.
Enfield in back, you can see it is longer.



And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.And the 24hr Campfire
forum has over a million views of this thread, ..ED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2015 at 18:27
The 12ga FH isn't the first wildcat case built on BMG
brass, it was preceded by
target rounds like the necked down 338 Talbot, the cut
off 700 DKT for big game,
necked down to .416 and . 458, and more, but the
following one was way
before them, in my favorite rifle caliber, for .585"
bullets.

One of first modern era 585 caliber wildcats, since
WW2, the 575 Miller-Greiss Magnum,
was first mentioned in the fifties, It was made from BMG
brass shortened to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585". But actually if cut
off first, it would be annealed, necked
down to hold 585 bullet. Fairly sharp shoulder.

They rebated the rim quite a ways down to .618" to maybe
fit 98 Mauser bolt.
Maybe used a special hogged out, reworked action. Listed
as
shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about
150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter
case, where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG
case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG or PH sized bolt and action. I'm
glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and
new. Years ago when guys did
big wildcats on BMGs, they took what was available, full
length BMGs to rework, and but
maybe back then they could have used the 3" BMG spotter
case, by shortening the neck,
if they could have found couple barrels full.

But it takes a lot of work to reform and shorten cases
that much like M&G, with the multiple dies,
multiple annealings, and case trimming and extreme
reworking of regular rifle actions,
which is why I like our 585 case, simple and straight,
any regular, long bolt action, or
falling blocks, break actions, etc, a 585 good for dozen
or more heavy loadings,
and moderate loads, last forever..

For our 585HE , made it a size, actually new belted size,
to fit regular size, long bolt guns,
(not BMG actions)that didn't have to be used from tripod
so to speak, and could be put in a favorite
gun of many, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without
taking metal out of the feed trough.
To get the same and/or more powder space as a cut back,
really shortened, BMG case, like M&G,
wildcatted to 585, or other short cases, we made longer
case and worked with guys
with a group buy, to get a factory run made. A miracle.
We thank all gun nuts for the help.

THere is picture on the great site, cartridgecollector
dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed



http://wwwtridgecollector/sites/default/file
s/575%20MG%20MAGNUM%20FULL.jpg

Edited by hubel458
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2015 at 21:48
Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE
necked down, the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a
Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no
headstamps for wildcatters.

First notice of the case sent to me today off of a guys
facebook.


dges-calibers/6383d1435630729t-375-warlord-
image.jpg">


Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to
maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt
they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up space in a levergun action,
say like our rimmed 24ga FH, a 585 bore,

but which is perfect with that rim for break actions like
our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2015 at 12:32
Sorry to be away so long. Health and money problems.
Here is how the top of the singlestack magazine looks
that we
made to use in Enfields and other bolt actions. The lips
that hold the
cases are springy, and we can load it from the top. The
inside of action
below feed rails are relieved a little and that allows
feed lips to
move and work ok.



Here are couple 24ga FHs break actions, a CBC with
monoblocked
585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel
monoblocked in.
The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga, and 585 Minie
Bullets
are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit.






Another matter---It seems strange for me to ask for help
when
I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really
am in a bind.

That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our
farms truck
garden business, as my my knees are shot and can't hardly
walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung
condition
got so bad she can't work.. So we finally had to quit
that,
but were and are in debt. We need little extra money to
try
to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills
and utilities.
As well as needed for traveling to doctors,
treatments,drugs, etc.

Could you all maybe get together with others on these
forums
and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my
troubles and
debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into our paypal
account as gifts.
And if you want to mail it, contact me to get you
my mailing address.

The Paypal email is je@gunownerstv.com

Best Regards- Ed

PS-- I really need help. Not astronomical amounts, but
fairly fast.
Just a little from each to help. A quick boost so to
speak.
We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and
research.
The little coming from sale of 585 brass, dies,
barrels,etc,
goes to pay to the places, where rest of the money
is owed, for getting them made..Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2015 at 15:09

Here is picture of a lightweight Barnes bullet in 24ga
FH.
Guys cut the back off of 750gr bullet off to get 500gr
weight.



Here is picture 58 cal Minie slug that's little long on
the side for our 12ga
sabot, with the front of the slug above the grooves
swaged to fit in
sabot. The swaged front third of the slug fits next to
the internal ridge in
sabot and the sabot doesn't bulge out.Just run front
into a die
and punch it back out.



And some info about 12ga FH and other hopped up shotgun
slug loads,
You know we use couple of the rifle powders, slower
than shotgun powders, .
We like to use IMR 4759 for some loads and slower RE17
for others where
we have room for larger charges. Those two powders are
ignited ok in large
diameter cases like 12ga, 10ga, 16ga, etc, without
needing BMG primers.
But we have always been looking for easy to ignite
powders of the RE17
type, in all temps, that has a speed between the IMR
4759 and the RE17.
RE17 uses different mfg process to put the deterrents in
the powder kernel to
control speeds, which allows much easier ignition,
because the deterrent is
not all on the outside of the kernel.   RE17 ignites
easier compared to 98%
majority of rifle powders with all the deterrent on the
outside.

But there are some out there made by Nitrochemie
Switzerland, who makes
RE17, RE26, RE33, etc, for Alliant. It's the ' RELOAD
SWISS' brand available
for those folks in UK and Europe, They are called-   RS
40, about same speed
as RE12, RS 50 & 52, about same speed as RE15, RE60 &
62 same as RE17.
Also one ' Vihta Vouri ' powder called TR140 available
over there,
that Nitrochemie made..

Many guys can't get IMR 4759 anymore, some can't get
RE17.
Be nice to get some of RS 40-50-52 powders or the V V
TR140 shipped, if ever
possible, into the states, would really be great help for
hairy slug load work.
But the guys in UK/EU now can load some real hairy, slow
powder, slug loads,
we experimented with, even though not having IMR
4759....Ed

Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 05:19
Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he
made it from.
He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and
458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to
357 wildcat.



Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE,
in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.



We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can
even feed really
long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or
more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and
hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is
Stiller Cheytac actions
made similar, just a newer version. Both actions come in
1.45" diameter
and a 1.60" diameter receivers.

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work,
decent prices, has
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He
has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good
working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of our 585 HE
reamers on hand,
we have barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed


Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2015 at 15:26
Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can
double
as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold
than
the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a
lot.
Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around



Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our
585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated
thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope
rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver
sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny type.





The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just
add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action,
drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer
cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some
don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think
straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one
being added on for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top
weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel,
then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are
straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there
flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for
the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed


Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2015 at 18:34
Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for
Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just
mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom
section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in
hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep
sight
like a compact UTG sight...



If we have a welded up Enfield rear bridge, then we can
use sight
like on this gun a guy is doing. Has a rosewood laminate
stock.
He will have it checkered, sanded, with fancy finish.



Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great... Ed




More about 585 BB short case for lever guns, pistols,AR
Uppers,
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-
70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle
barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a
case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols....Ed
Ed Hubel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubel458 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2015 at 17:28
Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action
that
our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered
for long range shooting.



Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our
585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.
He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the
375.





In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums
site. Ed


Ed Hubel
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