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If it were just me, I'd get an M1911 .45 ACP...

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TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 November 2017 at 13:25
...however, it's not just me. We are also getting this in case my wife ever needs to use it in self-defense, so I am open to suggestions.
 
She will, of course, learn how to use it properly and get very familiar with it in the process.
 
With that in mind, I'm leaning toward a 9mm, but what say you? This is - believe it or not - new territory for me.
 
Thanks in advance -
 
Ron


Edited by TasunkaWitko - 20 November 2017 at 15:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Go-ddaed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2017 at 14:14
A 1911 is not the easiest pistol to start on. Not sure if she plans on carrying or for around the house? Something unsettling about a condition one pistol that is not in a holster. Limp wristing is also a problem. Striker fire like Glocks or Springfield’s are easier to learn on but require specific trigger finger disapline. People without training always stick their finger on the trigger. If it were me and from the sound of it not many if any people have much experience with handguns I’d start with a revolver. They are much more straightforward. 38 +P is as good or better than most 9mm. You can start with light loads and work up. A .357 obviously works that way too but not many would use a full on magnum round instead of a +P.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2017 at 14:33
Not a bad idea at all, GD ~
 
This most likely wouldn't be for carrying around much.
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No magazine to fail. Can be kept loaded indefinitely. Easy to see if loaded. Not as picky about being clean to operate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2017 at 15:49
dd is good alvise.

I always recommend a 38 4" revolver.  Shorter barrels are difficult to shoot...longer are a little cumbersome.

The smiths are the best, but $$$.  The S&W model 10 with a 4" barrel is goood.  lot of these used at gun shows or pawn shops.    Ruger sp101 in 4" is fine.

Taurus makes clones of S&W in Brazil; at low cost.

For new shooter, I ALWAYS recommend 158 gr SWC standard target loaded 38.  P+ really isn't needed and the new person will handle the target load great.  To defend your self...first you MUST hit the target!

While guns like SS, I always recomment blued...cheaper and it LOOKS like gun not a cigarette lighter or a toy.

Just thoughts


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2017 at 15:52
Should have said.  all the revolver I recommend at single/double action without a safety.  to a newbie it is just like shooting a cap gun.  aim squezze strongly...bang.  of course as a shooter progresses, he/she can shoot the gun single action (cocking it first with the hammer) then firing more accuratly.

more just thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2017 at 16:11
I've taken a number of new women shooters out. The two biggest things I've learned, number 1, don't have preconceived idea of what pistol, they'll be comfortable with. Number 2, don't pick one for them, they will be more adapt to use it and become proficient, if it's the one they choose. If you're going to share a pistol, let her make final decision, you can adapt to her choice easier, than visa versa.

Try to shoot as many, before buying as possible, many times what looks good, doesn't feel good, when you shoot it. I doubt Havre is big enough, to have gun shop, with range that has pistols to try or rent, but I bet Great Falls does. If you were closer, I'd let you (and her) try out few different types.

While S&W model 10 4-6" barrel in 38sp or same in model 66 are very often recommended, for new shooters and they're very easy to shoot well, there will be strong preference of one grip style over another. I would stay away from stub nosed revolver for new shooter, they're much harder to shoot well, than 4" or 6". I say S&W because it's classic, but Ruger and Taurus also make similar type revolvers, at mid and lower price points.

Many prefer a pistol over revolver, preferring the feel and less intimidating look. Glock 17 or 19 is very easy, for many to shoot, the more compact models, are easier to carry, but harder to shoot. There are many makers of this style of pistol, price points vary widely, from $250-600, you can often find used ones also. I prefer Springfield XD, because of grip safety, but Glock is more popular. I also have several Taurus pistols, in the compact size range, but they're harder to shoot well.

If you watch, you can often find good deals on Beretta 92s, GF's pawn shops, should be loaded with them, with base there. I have one, but I don't like it's trigger style, but it's nearly as popular as Glock 17.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2017 at 22:31
I agree with Bear on a revolver being my idea of the perfect beginners defense gun. I also agree with Robert that she should pick out something that she likes. 

J&G sales usually has police trade in Smith & Wesson model 10's for around $300. 


I bought one of these from Buds Gun Shop a few years ago when they were $269. It had quite a bit of holster wear, but it didn't look like it had been shot much at all. I took the side plate off to clean it up and it looked like new inside. With the holster wear you don't worry too much about banging it up at the range. 

If your budget allows, I would really recomend a 4 inch model 19. That's in my opinion the closest thing to the perfect revolver. It's a .357 so you can shoot .38 Specials in it and if you want to you can load it up with .357's. They balance great, shoot great and with target grips the recoil is very manageable. 

Just a thought. 

Let us know what you decide on. If you end up with a S&W revolver I might have some accessories you can try out.   

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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 02:33
Problen with most autos is they are too complicated to operate under stress, by the un=trained.

Two experiences demonstrated this to me:

A guy was trying to shoot  a car wounded deer along the road, about a 6 foot shot with a Beretta thaat was his CCW.  As he aimed and tried to take the safety off..he instead hit the mag release.  The mag dropped out, making his gun useless.  He had been carryibng this gun for 2 years and had some range time in.  I picked up the mag; and he was shook up and asked me to shoot the deer, I did.

I got an auto from a friend to check and repair.  His mother had tried to commit suicide with it  She was still trying when police got there; she kept squezzzing the trigger..no bang.  The gun was perfectbut the safety was on when she tried.  I fired 100 rounds thru it and gave it back with some instuction to son.

Most autos have a slide stop, mag release, decocker/safety plus.  All just more things a newbie must learn to perfection and remember in a high stress moment.

One auto, I have, a Diamondback 380, a micro pistol. small, light weight.  Functions fine with different brands of ammo.  made in the USA (florida).  It has only a small mag release.  If one wanted a small purse/nightstand auto this would be OK.  Cost me $179 new this year.
While the Ruger 380 LCP is a decent low cost gun; it has 4 buttons: mag release, safety, slide hold open, and slide take-down.


Edited by BEAR - 21 November 2017 at 02:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 06:58
Gonna throw in on this with the Ruger pink lady SP-101. Has a 3 or 4 inch barrel, stay away from the snubbie, smaller grip then the bigger rubber on the standard 101 and can be had with the crimson trace laser if so desired. A .38+P at danger close will do everything a .357 will do at 50 yards. Gold dots or Critical Defense are a sound loading for home use. No reason to complicate matters with the auto for home use. Under duress even the best trained make mistakes. Wife has a Rossi 971 4" in 38/357 and the boy has the 92F as that was his qualifying arm and the one he is most used too. I have the ole' 50 and the STI Nitro 10 and a long history of auto's. I would still prefer a wheel gun for home use.......and hunting.
...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 13:08
Well, I was all prepared to have a lot of information to talk about with her, and she's changed her mind, already! Confused
 
So, now, instead of looking for one that is mostly tailored to her, the plan will change, I guess. I will just see about getting one that is mostly "for me," that she "might" have to use someday, if someone comes in while I am gone.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 18:58
I would still go with 38/357 revolver, with 4" barrel, medium frame, mfg of your choice. Adjustable target style sights, make it more useful trail gun, fixed of course are more "fool proof".

If it's fun to shoot, you'll shoot it more and if it's able to handle 38sp, it'll be more fun and cheaper to shoot. I wouldn't give up on her, she's about half way there, if she sees you and kids shooting it, she's adapt to join in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 21:48
Well there is always this if you still have the itch....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-army-selling-most-powerful-013200617.html

...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 22:46
This is my model 19. I still think that it would be a great defense gun for you and maybe some day for your wife. 


I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2017 at 08:24
Agree with Robert .  4" model 19  perfect.

Of course I like the Model 15 in 4"  Combat Masterpiece  38 special  (p+).
there is even one for sale in MT!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2017 at 09:57
The model 19 pictured is Randy's.

If you compare it to Model 15, Bear linked to, notice the different grip shape and size, closer to Model 10.

Grip size is a personal preference, many shoot better with target style grips, like model 19 (K frame) and my favorite model 28 (N frame). Many prefer the smaller grips like model 10 and 15 have (K frame).

I have large hands, but have the small sized grips, on my carry revolvers. Target grips (oversized) are preferred by many, they spread out recoil better in hand.

If you can, shoot one in each grip style, most people have preference for one, over the other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2017 at 11:03
Ron has taken the 'wife gun' off the table.

BUT, I've seen the "let the wife/girl friend"  pick her own become a disaster....IF you taker her to a gun shop.  The sales 'kid' will promote what he thinks, and she will pick what stricks her fancy.  Both will usually end up as a poor choice.

Take a new shooter out to the range on a week day, with some "borrowed guns" that YOU think make safe guns for her.  I usually do a DA 9mm, sa Army 38, K frame 22, J-frame 38 with very light loads and rubber grips, 32 pocket auto, 25 Beretta.  Don't take a 22 auto...they will love that one.

After she decides, with your judgment, then she can pick the grips...pink molded plastic?


Edited by BEAR - 22 November 2017 at 11:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2017 at 13:10
I didn't mean let her loose unsupervised in gun shop, that'd be like giving a them a platinum Visa on black Friday and telling them whatever they want.

I most often start them on 38sp revolver and a service sized 9mm pistol. If they want to try others, I usually have smaller 9mm pistols, as well as larger calibers along.

I've had them prefer revolver over pistol most often, but a couple, my daughter included, don't like nor shoot revolvers well. I've had a couple want to shoot a 45 pistol and really like it. Most often, they just want to shoot something bigger, to show they can and go back to the lighter recoiling ones. I had one lady, I work with beg to shoot SBH, she handled 45 recoil well, so I let her, she ended up shooting up what ammo, I had along.

Unless they're a kid or real green, I don't confuse issue with 22s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2017 at 14:02
I take a BH with medium 357 loads for the single action revolver.  very gentle, and accurate with the 5.5 barrel.  Never had a woman like it best.

They all seem to prefer the autos best.  when I ask why, they say "it is simple to operate";  I never could figure out a female mind (might be an anbigoous thought!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goatlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2017 at 20:10
You guys have made some very good points on this topic.  I agree to some degree with everyone's view.  I'm a 1911 .45auto guy, having carried one downrange while in the USN for a number of years, and now have the same pistol for part of my home defense line-up.  My wife and daughters have all shot it at paper with no discomfort, so don't be too sure it's too much for the wife off hand.  That said, a point often overlooked by the "let her pick her own gun" crowd, is the mental readiness of the novice shooter in properly managing the pistol they pick on their own, in a stress situation.  While my wife liked shooting semi-autos, I know her well enough to judge her not ready to fully manage a semi-auto in high stress life or death circumstance, and...here's the other thing, she will not take the time needed to become an expert with that platform.  Running clearing drills, and mag change practice is not in her near future.  So, she has no business relying on a semi-auto when far simpler to operate options are available.  I think those of us who have the experience using these firearms under duress, have a responsibility to our love ones that are beginners, to advise them in the pros/cons of their choices and help steer them to a platform they will be the safest using according to their commitment to training with that platform.  In my wife's case, she was looking for a "get off me gun", to back up her long gun in the house, and potentially carry one day as needed when she has committed the time to train for CCW.  We ended up getting her a SW J-frame, .357Mag, 3.5" bbl, DAO.  No, she will not be shooting 357s, those I will carry in it when I barrow this one for fly fishing trips in the mountains.  She shoots .38 sp. 
As pointed out already, all she has to do is point and squeeze the trigger.  In her intended use, this one is for very close quarters, like someone standing at the bed, not across the living room.  The weight of the 357 version J-frame is heavier than those little lightweight 38sp J frames, so it's easier for her to shoot.  One word of caution though regarding DAO for small people.  Sometimes, the trigger pull is too heavy for those without strong grips.  While my wife is able to shoot this pistol fine, our 30 year old daughter struggles to squeeze the double action trigger.
If your beginner is set on a semi-auto, they should be advised going into it, that they ought to practice vigorously with properly managing malfunctions, at least as much as punching holes in targets.  

Edited by Goatlocker - 23 November 2017 at 20:12
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