The BaitShop Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > FireArms, et cetera > Handguns, Pistols and SixGuns
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - DRUGS AND RESTRAINT ISSUES
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

This site is completely supported by donations; there are no corporate sponsors. We would be honoured if you would consider a small donation, to be used exclusively for forum expenses.



Thank you, from the BaitShop Boyz!

Topic ClosedDRUGS AND RESTRAINT ISSUES

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Topic: DRUGS AND RESTRAINT ISSUES
    Posted: 30 July 2003 at 12:08

A question came up in the 40 S&W post that I'd like to address, but, since what I have to say has more to do with drugs and restraint issues, I chose to start a new post called:

DRUGS AND RESTRAINT ISSUES

During my life, I've helped restrain two young folks, both either just above or below 20 years of age, who were under the influence of some sort of, as I understand it, drug stimulate.  Both were, at the time, relatively impervious to pain and had shed their inhibitions, right along with their cloths.  One was a young woman.  The other was a young man.  Both were, at the time I interceded, engaged in attempts, as it appeared to me, to either hurt or kill themselves.  Who knows what they, at the time, thought that they were doing.  The young woman was about to dive out the window of a six story building when I got hold of her.  The young man, when I saw him, was charging, head on, a bus.  The bus managed to stop with this guy part way under the front bumper.  I helped restrain both of these young folks, to prevent them from hurting either themselves or others, until medical and law enforcement personnel arrived.  In each case at least one other man, at one time or another, assisted me.  And, I'm here to tell you, I was glad to have the help. 

To help you understand these two situations better, I'm a fairly large and capable man with better than average physical skills who has been around the block a time or two.  I played football, not very well, I'm sorry to say, as a fullback and linebacker at a Big Ten University during a time when they won two national championships.  I was also, while in college, an undefeated heavyweight boxer.  I've also worked as a bodyguard.  So, again, as background, what I was bringing to these two situations was some fairly substantial size, strength, quickness and savvy.

For clarity, I should say, that back in my university days, my playing and fighting weight was right around 230 pounds.  With the young woman, I probably weighted around 240.  With the young man, maybe 250.

Nonetheless, I had all I could do to restrain those two.  The young woman was, maybe, 5' 4" tall and somewhere around 125 pounds.  The young man was, maybe, 6' tall and a slim 175 pounds or so.  Both felt, to me, incredibly strong.  At one point, with the young woman, I had hold of her wrist and could actually hear her bones cracking yet she showed no pain and continued to try to get out of my grasp.  Same with the young man.  He was face down on an asphalt pavement.  I could see his teeth breaking from the pressure I was putting on his head.  He had been trying to bite the other guy who was helping me to restrain him. 

Eventually, to make what could be a very long story shorter, medical personnel arrived, in each case, ahead of law enforcement, and took over.  Although, with the young woman, the doctor, who arrived alone, did ask me to help him get her into a straight jacket before attempting to treat her.

Now, in hindsight, here is some of what I learned from those two experiences:

1) It is better to not get involved unless lives are at stake.  In both of my situations, I believed they were.  Why?  Potential legal problems.  With the young woman, in particular, I was very fortunate that there were lots of witnesses because about two months after the incident described her families lawyer came sniffing around looking to sue somebody.  Last I heard, no one got sued.  With the young man, I was fortunate, one of the first people on the scene, before medical or law enforcement personnel, was his mother.  She was scared and grateful for my helping to restrain him.

2) If I was alone, I'm not sure I could have handled either of these young folks without resorting to my boxing skills.  If one or the other had elected to physically attack me, as opposed to focusing their efforts on trying to escape my grasp, or, if either of them had a weapon, of any kind, I might very well have been forced, because of imminent danger to me, to shoot them.  Saying that, my weapon of choice, because of the range involved, and gawking bystanders, would be a shotgun loaded with number 4 shot so as to, hopefully, avoid any type of through and through shot that might hit one of the bystanders.  If I was, by circumstances, forced to rely on a handgun, my choice would be, simply because I've owned and tested them, either a 40 S&W or a 45 ACP loaded, in either case, with Federal Hydra Shok JHP (155 grain in the 40 S&W and 230 grain in the 45 ACP) (many other calibers and loads could, I'm sure, work equally well or better).  In my situations:  Both were slim;  Both were nude.  So, part of my choice, and that's all it is, my personal choice, based on my experience and testing, comes from my fear of over penetration and the, maybe, unintended consequences of same.

Drug induced behavior, especially from stimulants, from what little I have seen, appears to scare the heck out of most folks to the point that they will watch what is happening but stay well clear of the action while it is taking place.  And that is probably very smart of them. 

So, if we couple some sort of drug induced behavior, such as I've described, with most folks normal fears, you could very easily have a volatile situation.  Especially if someone is scared and armed.  You could have bullets flying who knows where and hitting who knows who.  Best, if possible, to step in and avoid such a situation if you have some skills and are personally willing to put yourself at risk. 

Today you have to think:  One bite or scratch could give you aids or something else equally ugly.  So, is it worth getting involved?  That's a question we all have to answer only to ourselves and, should, I hope, be answered only after considering our personal skill level. 

Sometimes skill level is more important than just having good intentions.

Bottom line, if you can avoid getting involved with drug induced crazy behavior, do so.  Leave it to the professionals.  More bad than good can happen when amateurs jump in.  With or without guns being involved.

CJ

 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.344 seconds.