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Topic ClosedONE SHOT STOP DATA

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: ONE SHOT STOP DATA
    Posted: 30 July 2003 at 09:40

ONE SHOT STOP DATA COMPILED BY EVAN MARSHALL

 

First, and foremost, this is Evan Marshall's data.  If you want to know more about him and his data, please go to his internet web site.  Also, if you choose to read what Marshall has to say, please, also, go to the internet web site of Dr Fackler, Marshall's chief critic.  To be fair, one should read what both have to say.

 

Second, as I understand it, Marshall gathers his one shot stop (OSS) data from:

1) After action shooting incident reports written by law enforcement personnel.

2) Medical reports, including autopsy reports, written my medical personnel. 

 

Third, again, as I understand it, all of the Marshall OSS data is based on these three prerequisites:

1) The person shot was shot with one and only one handgun bullet.

2) The person shot was shot in the torso.

3) The person shot was incapacitated or killed as a direct result of being shot in the torso with one handgun bullet.

 

Fourth, Marshall usually, but not always, reports OSS results by:

1) Caliber.

2) Bullet weight.

3) Manufacturer.

4) Percent.

And, rarely, very rarely, by barrel length.  If a caliber or bullet weight or manufacturer does not appear in the data, I understand that to mean that too few people have been shot with that particular caliber or bullet weight or manufacturer product, who meet the prerequisite criteria necessary to be included.

 

I don't have all of the Marshall OSS data and what I do have may or may not be the most current.  Nonetheless, here is what I do have:

 

MARSHALL'S ONE SHOT STOP WITH A TORSO HIT DATA BY PERCENT

 

22 CALIBER (no bullet weights specified)

40 % Quik Shok JHP

38 % CCI Stinger JHP

30 % Federal JHP

(22 long rifle bullets, more often

than not, weigh 36, 38 or 40 grains)

 

32 ACP CALIBER

66 % 60 gr Winchester Silver Tip JHP

60 % 60 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP

59 % 65 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP

 

380 CALIBER

71 % 90 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP

 

9mm CALIBER

91 % 115 gr Federal JHP +P+

90 % 115 gr Remington JHP +P+

90 % 115 gr Winchester JHP +P+

90 % 127 gr Winchester Black Talon JHP +P+

83 % 115 gr Winchester Silver Tip JHP

83 % 124 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP

83 % 124 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP +P

78 % 147 gr Winchester Black Talon JHP

 

38 SPECIAL (2 inch barrel)

67 % 125 gr Remington JHP +P

67 % 158 gr Federal LHP +P

67 % 158 gr Winchester LHP +P

65 % 129 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP +P

 

38 SPECIAL (4 inch barrel)

67 % 129 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP +P

 

357 MAGNUM

96 % 125 gr Federal JHP

96 % 125 gr Remington JHP

93 % 125 gr CCI Speer JHP

 

357 SIG

91 % 125 gr CCI Speer JHP

91 % 125 gr Federal JHP

91 % 125 gr Winchester JHP

 

40 S&W

94 % 165 gr Remington Golden Saber JHP

93 % 155 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP

93 % 155 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP

89 % 155 gr Federal JHP

 

41 MAGNUM

90 % 170 gr Winchester Silver Tip JHP

79 % 210 gr Winchester JHP

75 % 210 gr Remington JHP

 

44 SPECIAL

75 % 200 gr Winchester Silver Tip JHP

72 % 200 gr Federal LHP

67 % 200 gr Remington LSWC

 

44 MAGNUM

92 % 210 gr Winchester Silver Tip JHP

89 % 180 gr Federal JHP

88 % 240 gr Remington JHP

 

45 ACP

96 % 230 gr Federal Hydra Shok JHP

96 % 185 gr Remington JHP +P

96 % 185 gr Remington Golden Saber JHP

 

45 COLT

80 % 225 gr Federal LHP

79 % 225 gr Winchester Silver Tip JHP

72 % 255 gr Winchester LRN

 

Please remember, this is not my data.  The data appearing in this post has been compiled by Evan Marshall.  Dr Fackler is his chief critic.  If you want to argue the data, please do so with either Marshall or Fackler.  Both of them have internet web sites. 

 

If you want to discuss the data, I'll do my best but will probably refer most questions directly to Marshall or Fackler.  I've never met Marshall or Fackler.  I did, at one time, write for the Marshall web site.  I came away from that experience with some respect for the data and little or no respect for Marshall.  Fackler strikes me as a very bright fellow. 

 

I often quote from the Marshall data because it is the most current that I am aware of.  If it were up to me, I'd like to see Marshall and Fackler put their differences aside and work together.  That, in my view, would be of great benefit to those of us who are interested in self defense issues as they relate to handguns, cartridges and bullets.

 

If anyone has more current Marshall OSS data, and is willing to share it, please let me know and I will be glad to include it here in this post.

 

CJ

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2003 at 02:08

Marshall and Fackler are both seemingly dedicated ballistic researchers. They are both also, in my opinion, crackpots. Neither one acepts any questioning of their "facts", leaves no room for argument, will not even look at anyone else's ideas or theories.

Interesting data, but I kind of question some of the conclusions, like the 9mm higher than a .41 mag / .44 special, and a .45 acp much higher than a .45 Colt.

DC

Have your musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, sixty rounds powder and ball, and be ready to march at a minute's warning.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2003 at 08:30

The OSS data is based on prerequisites.  I've done my best to list them, as I understand them.

Marshall has been gathering OSS data for many years and has written several books about it.  Part of each book appears to update what he has previously written.  As a result, we should, ideally, focus on his most current data.  And, quite frankly, I don't know if what I posted is his most current data.  All I can tell you is that what I posted is the most current data that I have available to me.  Current or not, Fackler is the chief critic of the Marshall data.  Both have web sites.  Both accept, last time I looked, email.  Criticism, to be effective, really needs to go directly to Marshall or Fackler.  I like to discuss this stuff, but I can't speak, with any authority, for either one of them.

Personally, I don't think Marshall has published conclusions so much as he has results.  Results based on prerequisites.  Conclusions are, I think, what we draw after we read results.

But, I'm no expert on either Marshall or Fackler.  I simply like to read what they have to say in the hope that I will learn something useful.

Bottom line:  We should all learn what we can and then, each of us, draw our own conclusions by making informed self defense choices that meet our needs.  I can't say it enough:  Your life = your choice.  My life = my choice.  Different needs often require different choices.

CJ

 

 

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