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Topic Closedtuning a bow

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bkcorris View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: tuning a bow
    Posted: 10 March 2004 at 10:53
I've got an older crappy compound, around 40-50# draw, maybe 10% let off. On release, arrows are rather wobbly, accuracy is ok but not very consistant. I can hit vitals size at 20 yards ok. I do not have sights wich doesn't help, but wobbly arrows are the worst. So far all I've done is square everything up, make sure the nocked arrow is at 90 degrees, what else can be done and how do you do it? With aluminum arrows and 150gr practice tips I average 130fps if that helps or matters.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2004 at 16:16

There are a number of good bookletss that would help.  Most bow shop carry them, cost $5.

Bows can be tuned a number of ways.  the nock point shoould not be 90 degrees for start.  it should be about 3/8 inch high.  Turning a two cam bow is different than a single.  cams are slightly different than twin pulleys.

Basically I use masking tape  on the pulleys.cams to mark TDC - top dead center.  Both pulleys must be in syn.  so tdc is at the point tangent to the respective string at rest.  this will assure that they both pass thru the peak at the same displaced string point.  In addition, the pulleys should be tuned to mak sure that there is not an over-drawn force, ie the valley actually goes up at you full draw.  If so the arrow tends to kick twice with sharp increases in forsce in the first few inches.

The arrow/best position should also be tuned so the arrow smoothly bends around the handle.

Obviouly the arrow spine (stiffness) has to be matched and tuned to the bow force and length and arrow head weight.

It is difficult to write about so you can 'see it'.  If you are serious about shooting bows you really need to get a booklet and spend some time.  Some archery shops will 'tune' it for you.  But make sure they use your arrows and your draw lenght, helps to be there.

BEAR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2004 at 02:24

BK,

If you PM your address I'll mail you some notes that will greatly help you.

BEAR

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bkcorris View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2004 at 02:34
Bear - thanks. This is an old bow with cables and pulleys, Cams are offset pulleys, it was my uncles and other than my light tinkering it hasn't been used in 10 years. My bud that bow hunts has the latest graetes and is trying to convince me to dump it but I'd like to make it work. Not everyone needs a bow with 90% let off that throws an arrow at 400fps.

I got looking it over last night before any responces and noticed that the upper strand had more tension than the lower, only the upper is adjustable. I also noticed that the cams were no where near each other in timing. I stripped the cables and put an extra wrap on the lower cable stand and repositioned the cams. I don't know about wobble, but now I have it so I get a more noticable let off and have velocity up to 150.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2004 at 05:08

BK,

Always be careful in re-routing compounds.  The sting and cable stor lots of energy and a failure at full draw or on release can really serioously hurt you.  If you don't know for sure a call to the mfg will get you the cable route and parts as they don't want a liability claim.  thank the lawyers for such support.

BEAR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2004 at 06:28
Nothing was re-routed per say, basically just added a little extra tension to the lower strand and reclocked the upper cam pulley. Repositioning the pulley gave me the extra bit of pull length I wanted also. I have no idea on the manufacturer, no markings. It has a wood main beam and what seem like spring steel arms.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2004 at 15:32
BEAR, just letting you know I got your packet the other day. Lots of info, thanks! I got it tuned about as good as it will get I think. I have it set up with a decent draw weight and let-off, still not a lot with the small cam wheels. With my heavy arrows it is pushing 165. Oddly enough, me tinkering with it really got my wife interested. We went to Gander mountain and got her det up with a pretty nice Parker bow with all the goodies. I handled a few and can't beleive just how small some of these newer bows are. I got her some decent lightweight corbon arrows, I can push those at 180 from my bow pulling around 60#'s, hers pulls at 40# with 80% letoff, pretty easy and it still pushes them at 150 with room to improve. She's having fun and getting really excited by hitting the bull on the target. I don't like to be picky but I think I might make my bow into a carp setup and look for something a little newer that shoots a little easyier and more accurately. Otherwise it is working good for me for now. Thanks again.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2004 at 16:34

When measured with a bow square, the upper limb should show about 1/4" greater measurement than the lower limb. Then move the nocking point up and down. As was stated , it needs to be up from 90 degrees. Probably from 1/4" to 3/4", depending on your shooting style, and release you are using. Check the arrow rest. These can effect arrow flight immensely. Some are for finger shooting, some for release use. You definitely need the proper type for the shooting style you are doing. Release types are generally adjustable, finger types may be worn down, and need replacement. This, along with a propely splined arrow, is probably the most critical part of good arrow flight.

I haven't shot competition for several years, but I'm sure the tuning techniques haven't changed all that much. I used to make custom longbows, and they were pretty sensitive to tuning for optimum arrow flight. I'm now back to compounds, due to bursitis, rather than desire.

Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2004 at 16:59
Thanks for chiming in Waksupi. I did get it shooting pretty straight, mostly from the cams being quite off from each other. It isn't a very powerful bow and it is really old and a poor design. It has single #8 machine screws for limb pivots, I am thinking of getting into it pretty heavy and I don't know if I trust its strength for excessive shooting, that's the main reason for wanting to upgrade. It will make a nice carp bow, I've wanted to get into that for a while too, so I'll get the best of both worlds.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2004 at 17:12

Check Ebay or such for used bows. The archers have been in an "arms Race", much like rifle shooters have been the past few years. There is no sense at all in spending more on a bow than you would a rifle. They are simple mechanisms, even in the compound mode.

Anything that you can pull is good. 50# will kill elk quite consistantly. I used to shoot 125 # in the compound for competition and hunting, but that was for physical therapy more than anything.

I had an unplanned departure from a horse, and injured my right shoulder rather badly. I went for several months, and couldn't pull a bow at all. I made a light weight one and started drawing it, and then worked into a compound, starting at it's lowest end. I kept increasing the poundage as I could stand the pain, changing the wheels twice during the process, that took two years.

 When shooting winter league, the range owner came up to me after a round, and wanted to check my bow. He measured it in front of witnesses, and at that time I was pulling 137#. After I saw that, I couldn't shoot it worth a damn, and dropped down in poundage to an average of about 120#. I'm out of shape for everyday shooting now, and only pull about 65-70#.

 

Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2004 at 17:16
God call on Ebay, I've been watching it for a few days. Quite a few good bows going for $50-$75, most with all the trimmings. I don't think I could come close to pulling 100#!!! ouch!!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2004 at 00:19

Bow weight of pull is like "magnumitis" in rifles.  I've killed lots of deer with 32-45# bows.  Regarding short bows.  IMHO they are tougher to shoot.  Upon release, ever bow wants to move.  it is easier for short bows to move/twist upon release.  I think lower bows are more 'forgiving'.  true the short bows are easier handling in tree stands and moving thru brush.

65# use to be the standard for compounds, i liked 55# for hunting myself.  The longer I hunt the more I appreciate the importance of shot placement.  So a smooth draw and along hold waiting for a deer to walk in ot the right position is very important to my kill rate.

Shooting thru isn't as important as most archers think.  A retainer broad head really cuts tissue as deer moves and does more damage on each step.  In 10 yards the lungs are totally shredded, you don't need a double hole blood trail when he only goes 40 yds.

BEAR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2004 at 03:33
The magnumitis feeling is lost on my bow, for me anyway. Just the design of the cam setup gives little advantage. I could use it fine, but with litle let-off holding 30# plus while you wait for the animal to get in position gets tiring fast. Another thing is I don't want to either rely on multiple pins or hold over/under so it would be nice to get something a little newer that has a little better velocity and lot-off. I think those really lightweight arrows are too light for the bow, it doesn't feel right when releasing like there isn't enough string load to keep the gods happy kind of thing.of course the thing is so loud using a 10yard zero and assuming the deer will duck at the sound may be right on!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2004 at 08:13

BK,

 

Remember, (most archers don't understand this)...The arrow crosses the line of sight twice.  Just like a rifle.  If you are on at 10 yds you can be 1 inch high at 15 yds and on at 20 yds.  Never sight a bow to be "on" at the tangent point, always make it cross above the line-of sight.  You get a much flatter shooting bow, in point.

BEAR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2004 at 08:29
Maybe if I could use lighter arrows I could make use of that more, but the light ones don't feel right leaving the bow, not smooth at all, like there isn't enough resistance and almost dry shooting. The heavier arrows I have drop almost a foot from 10 yards to 20, and about 5 high at 10 if set at 20, unless there is something else I'm not understanding there just is not enough speed to keep the arrow up there.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2004 at 02:10

BK,

If you  have afish scale you could weigh your bow's pull at peak.  If it is old and has been strung forever the limbs could be shot.  this is especially true with metal or wood limbs.

Lighter arrows always fly faster and therefore shoot flatter.  It yoou are shooting those carbon shafts with that rainbow trajectory, I'd scrap the bow.  It isn't worth spending a lot on it.  You seem to have gotten enough shooting that you know you and the wife will like the sport.  It is a good H&W pastime, with a foam target in the trunck of the car you can shoot most anyplace, also there are lots of comp, and shooting games.  I always like pumpkin shoots or archery golf.

Used bows are great buys, you get a good price and lots of goodies.  E-bay is ok.  But I'd suggest an archery store close to you.  The cost might be a few bucks more but it will be checked and you will have some recorse.

BEAR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2004 at 07:49
Bear, just a refresher. I'm on the lookout for a bow, found one I'm going to ponder over tonight actually. I've been playing with the other one some and although I still don't have the speed, trajectory, or let off I would like, I finally got it to shoot pretty accurately. I set the nocking point about 5/8" above level() and the pull point is about 2 1/2 inches below. I saw Ted Nugent had a bow setup with the pull point low so I tried it for kicks. Surprisingly it did make a difference. It centers the pull a little better and makes it a little smoother as well. Velocity with carbons is a whopping 170fps

Stupid people are like a slinky, they don't serve much purpose in the world but they sure are fun to watch tumble down the stairs!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2004 at 08:00

Here's some pics for the fun of it, can you name it?

this one has my wifes parker for comparisons.


Stupid people are like a slinky, they don't serve much purpose in the world but they sure are fun to watch tumble down the stairs!
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