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Gas vs LPG vs CNG?

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stinky View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 March 2012 at 16:59
I am thinking about getting a new hunting rig and was wondering about converting it to run on LPG or CNG. Does anybody have any experience w/either one?
Will it start when it is cold out?
What sort of affects will it have on power and mpg?
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deaddog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deaddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 00:42
I've been researching this subject some. Been looking at a LP back-up
generator not a vehicle but I do know a guy that sells LP and has
converted trucks. Some things: harder to start when below freezing.
Just like moutain climbers at cold high altitude if you pee on the tank
to warm it up you'll have no problems..May get some funny stares if
you are standing in the bed of your truck in a WalMart parking lot
doing that? Tank size takes up a lot of space. MPG is less than gas
but LP is cheaper. It didn't matter in my application but he said it was
frowned upon to have gas grill 20# tanks due to lack of some kind of
safety valve but admitted you almost need to carry one as a back-up
because you can trade them in at nearly any gas station.



Edited by deaddog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 02:49
Best place for this kind if info may be the LPG & CNG companies themselves.  In MN & WI Excel Energy has experimented with converting trucks/cars to CNG. IIRC...they have been used in tandem with the regular gas engine too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 03:09

I've also looked into this.  But didn't buy.  IIRC Honda and Toyota both make LPG/CNG cars.  The area I live in has tremendous amounts of NG and the prices are cheap.

Lots of stuff on the internet about these fuels in vehicles, most by natural gas companies.  But none talk about power.  they seem to be an acceptable technology and many of out metro buses and delivery vehicles use it.

It seems to me that the cost thing is a BIG factor.  And the advantage of CNG is that it doesn't have any state or Federal road taxes on it (yet).

Our local supermarket/gas station put 4 CNG charging stations in.  I've examined the fueling hoses, seals and valves.  Interesting.  but in the last 4 years I've not seen a car use them?????   I'm sure they were put in to look Green to the politicians. 

Back in 1981 when fuel prices had gone up from 38 cents a gallon to almost $1 a gallon in the prior 5 years, I bought a diesel Olds.  When I ordered it diesel was about 60% the cost of gas, within a year diesel was 30% more than gasoline.  So I got no fuel cost savings, and did have some inconvenience finding diesel at night.

Unless one is a government agency, to properly consider a CNG vehicle, one has to look at the extra cost initially and see how long it takes to offset that cost thru fuel savings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 03:24

Is their any way to fuel up with natural gas at home?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 03:54

sure just need a high pressure compressor, same as that used to fill scuba tanks with air.

But for a hunting vehicle, I'd only get a duel fuel model (Gasiline/CNG).  Running out of comprssed fuel in the mountains or off road is a long walk with a full gas grill tank!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 06:26

Stay away from Propane!!!!

 We ( bread trucks ) did Propane in the 70's Sucked. No one had/has a way to sell it by the gallon only by the pound. You lose 1/3 of every thing with propane. Horse power-1/3 MPG-1/3. Propane is as bad as diesel to fill,stinks on your hands and is freezing cold plus if you run out you can't knock on a farmers door and barrow a gallon of propane. We would carry a 20 pound tank as a spare but you only get 1/2 out of a spare tank, when the presser is equaled it stops transferring. BUT with all that said this is the worst... Propane doesn't vaporise at -20* so you stop!!!!! We ran the "fuel" line through the radiator and it would keep running in the cold as long as you didn't turn off the motor but it would rob all your heat the windows wouldn't even stay clear. Propane is not the way. Compressed Natural gas is.Much more power, easer to get if they make a 12 volt compressor pump, you wouldn't need to have a 80 gal tank and it's a LOT cheaper. I would like to see a car ran on compressed Hydrogen gas Now that would be the real deal!!!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 07:04
I know of a company trying to haul freight with CNG Trucks. This is all being done as a big PR deal so that they can tout their green image to their customers. Trucks have very limited range and NO POWER. They are hauling out of the Chicago area and once the trucks get down into TN they have to switch tractors to have enough power to run in the mountains plus the refueling stations are so far apart that they can't make the trip w/o running out of fuel. Big Joke as far as I can see. RD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2012 at 07:21

I am kinda thinking good old gasoline is probably not too bad after all. Yeah, its pretty expensive, but it is readily available, creates a good amount of horsepower, and the vehicle I have now will run on it without changing anything.

Sides that, If they keep drilling oil wells the economy will improve in my area.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MtElkHunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 07:00
I have seen both. What everyone said about propane is true.
Less power, less MPG. Even with the less cost by the time
you figure in the less MPG it comes out about the same as
gas. As far as CNG goes.... run away as fast as you can! I
will sum it up. I currently work for a natural gas company
and a few years ago we converted part of our vehicle fleet
to CNG as a pilot project. Being a gas company we had all
the gas for pretty much free. For two years we used it and
after two years we converted all the vehicles back to
gas.... Think about it we had free fuel and still would not
stay with CNG. That says it all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 16:51

Originally posted by MtElkHunter MtElkHunter wrote:

Think about it we had free fuel and still would not
stay with CNG. That says it all.

That makes a good point. What problems did they have with CNG?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 23:49

Wing, I know that CNG has to have tank walls much thicker than propane due to the high pressures needed to make it useable. That's more weight to carry that could be freight weight instead. Mileage is terrible, output horsepower is terrible, fueling stations are non existant in much of the country.

OTOH there are some large farms out there running digesters that turn manure and other biomass into methane. The methane can be compressed into CNG. I believe most, however, are using it in a gaseous state to fuel electric generators that they use to supply the farm with electricity or push it into the grid and are paid for it by the elec company. At least one that I know of is pumping it directly into the NG pipeline that runs across his farm. RD 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MtElkHunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 06:57

We installed a refueling station and it was always breaking down, the trucks had considerably less power, less MPG, the refueling process was a real pain in the ass and very slow. The drivers had real problems leaning the refueling process. The two biggest problems was a total lack of fueling stations and lack of range. A diesel line truck with a full tank of fuel has about a 500 miles range, the same truck with a full tank of CNG has about 100 mile range so with no fueling stations and a 100 mile range that means we could only get about 40 miles from our fueling station before we had to turn back, add to that, if the weather is cold and you have to run the truck more for the person to get warm then the problem only get worse.

If you were running a fleet were the vehicles were in a very small area and you had enough vehicles to justify the cost of a refueling station it might be ok. For the average person it is not a solution.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 16:24

I think I will stick to gasoline.

Thanks guys

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stinky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2012 at 15:57
Well, I checked on the price of propane in my area and it is the same as gas...or it was last Friday, 3.39.  This Friday, it would be .20 cheaper than gas...still not cheap enough to justify it.
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