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Topic Closedcast boolits for use on game

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TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: cast boolits for use on game
    Posted: 18 June 2003 at 15:18

i know that i have asked this before, but what are the recommendations? any particular alloy mixture? water quenching? heat-curing?

i am looking at shooting deer in the kill-zone out to 150-200 yards MAX with a .30-30.

TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2003 at 15:29
 hey ron: the only thing i might say is you might want to use a gas check. 150-200 yds is a goot poke.  you might need all the f.p.s. you can get?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2003 at 15:33

hey al -

i forgot about the reduced velocities. maybe i should change that to say i am looking more at a hundred yards, with 150 yards MAX.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2003 at 16:36

Ron, if you can get it up to 2000-2200 fps with good accuracy, it would shoot to two hundred. The problem is, that the velocity will drop off to where you will probably want to limit the shots to 150 and under for proper wound channel in a thirty caliber. If your velocity falls below 1600 or so, the wound channel gets pretty small.

This .358 Winchester target I forwarded on to you yesterday was at 1950 fps, and this will be a good honest two hundred yard cast bullet rifle, maybe a bit more, when sighted three inches high at a hundred. The four close ones are under 3/4". (Damn operator errors!)

I ran some loads up to around 2100 today with 4895, and was still getting good accuracy, coming in at the 2100 fps range. Best target so far was 3/8" at 100 with 5 gr. 3031, and 47 gr WC872 ( compressed load) at around 1750 fps. I believe with a target scope, rather than the 4X Weaver, this would be a one holer rifle.

Stay away from those duplex loads unless you have a very firm understanding of what you are doing!

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2003 at 16:48
 hey ron : nathan was playing with a 200 yd gong the other day. he got so he could hit it but it took him 5 shots to get there.  the gong was a 6 in.  he was close with all the shots but dont think a deer will let him shoot 5 times befor it runs.  he said that he covered it with the bdl insead of the front sight.  he was using a 150 gr flat tip.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2003 at 16:49

ric - that's some GREAT shooting~! i've got a LOT of practice ahead of me before i can even come close to that performance.....

i gather from what you say that at the lower .30-30 velocities, a bigger, heavier bullet such as the .358 would penetrate and expand better, and that it would be wise to consider the .30-30's max with cast to be in the neighborhood of 100 yards, depending on velocity?

since i am still very new to reloading, i prefer slower velocities in my handloads (safe pressures), i doubt that i would manage to get to the 2000+ velocities that you mentioned, unless there is a powder out there capable of pushing a 150 or 170 grain cast bullet without a dramatic rise in pressure.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2003 at 17:01
 ron: when i reload or work up a load i start at what the book says. i go in 1 gr incramints till i get just below max. i have never used a max load.  just check your brass when you shoot it. look for stress on the brass and look at the primer. i have found that alot of my best loads are below what the book calls max. i use a big pice of white paper. i get those red sticky dots and put 1 for each load. shoot all off a rest at the same distance. just look and see which 1 gives you the best group. sometimes your group starrts big then get smaller. get it to where you like. then if you go to far your group should start to open up again. then i look at all the groups and pick out 1 or 2 and load up a few more and try it again. just keep track of what you have dont it will help to look back at what you have done.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2003 at 03:40

Yo uare looking for large frontal mass with a cast bullet to get the "splash" effect. Go too slow, and there isn't enough disruption. That's why I went to the .358, it will maintain good momentum. I'm not looking for expansion at all. That isn't the end game with a properly designed cast bullet.

There are lots of powders that you can use that won't generate excess pressures. I like a powder that will bring me up to near 100% case capacity for the desired velocity. That means slow powders. In your caution, never drop a slow powder down under 2/3 case capacity, as this can cause a SEE effect. In the 30-30, you should be able to use pretty much any low end info in the loading manuals, and come in at your desired velocity levels.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2003 at 04:13

I have been playing around with a CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 Mauser with a mind toward using it as a cast bullet game rifle AND with jacketed bullets to repel the pest bears that infest my local mountain hunting areas and berry patches.

It turns out the cast bullet might do "double duty".  I had a mold made up by Dan at Mountain Molds in Idaho, and it is one superb tool.  It produces 270 grain bullets using the .375 gas check, and initial test-drives indicate EXCELLENT accuracy.  I've pushed the velocities to 2000 FPS, and radial dispersion widens a bit......but I wouldn't call the groups "inaccurate".  This bullet has a .290" meplat, and I suspect that just about any critter it connects with won't benefit from the experience.  270 grains moving at 2000 FPS will leave a lasting impression.

So too will 286 grains at 2450 FPS.  Gotta see how the Nosler Partitions shoot.  Call it research integrity.  :-) 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2003 at 19:28

has anyone found a particular mold to work better for hunting applications? i have three molds, all LEE (113, 150 and 170).

i still need to get a lee sizer/gas-check seater. hopefully this week i can slug the bore and then next payday i can order it. i plan to shoot only at 100 yards, but want enough velocity and energy to do the job out to 150 or so, to make up for any error that i might make in range estimation.

will keep you updated!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2003 at 08:48
Tas, Your 336 has the micro-grove rifling in it right? I have heard tales that they won't shoot cast bullets well. Haven't tried on mine yet. So I don't know. Spotted some 165gr. factory cast loads at the shop. Suppose I should check it out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2003 at 17:29
Tas, any cast bullet with a flat nose works well for hunting (round nose tend to pass thru an animal without enough damage)and one of the best cast bullets for 30-30 is the Lyman 31141. It's a 170 grain flatnose gc design. You can order these from Lasercast in Oregon(1-800-811-0548 or www.laser-cast.com) already sized to .310 and lubed if you don't have the mould. However they do not come with the gascheck-I have run these thru my Lee sizer in order to apply the gaschecks but had difficulty getting the checks to seat straight-don't remember what brand check it was. They also have them with gascheck but they want an arm and a leg for those. Penney's Casting in California (310-455-1567) has these sized to your specs and gascheck applied for $7.00 a hundred + shipping. With cast you need to be at least one thousands larger and sometimes two or three is better. Also, shooting these bullets without the gascheck is a waste of time unless you keep the velocity down-even then you won't be happy with the lesser accuracy. I have gotten extremely excellent accuracy with a Marlin 336 microgroove 30-30 using this bullet and IMR 4198 powder regularly breaking clay pigeons at 200 yards, my notes show I also experienced leading after about 10 rounds. I now use a win model 94 and get no leading with same loads...Gary D.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2003 at 07:58

Opinions vary on the proper alloy for hunting, but I will give you my opinion specific to your parameters ( 30 cal. at 2 - 2.2K). You need an alloy that runs around 15-17 Bhn. Within your parameters such a bullet will give some expansion or else shear off the nose and the bottom continue giving a Nosler Partion effect.  Two alloys that meet these specs are 1. Wheelweight plus 2-3% tin. 2. Good ol Lyman No. 2. You don't need to harden either of these alloys. With a gas check in a smooth barrel, both can go 2.2K with zero leading.  It is not a hard trick to push a 30-30 bullet at your desired speeds. Several powders will do, but my choice is IMR3031. You can start at 27 grains and quit at 30 grains. You will find what you want in there. I am talking a 170 grains bullet.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2003 at 11:36

thanks for the advice! i've got ingots ofpure wheel weights that i made last spring, and planned to toss in a few inches of 50/50 solder with each "pot full" that i melted for casting. looks like i am fairly well on the right track.

i also have imr 3031 and was planning on doing my initial load development with that. looks like i picked a good one! the imr 4198 will be one to try.

i'll keep you updated, if i ever mabage to actually CAST any! had some frustration today involving my 113-grain mold, but lee will be taking care of that very shortly. once i get some stick alox/beeswax lube for prepping/lubing my molds and then get them smoked, i plan to actually attempt the art of casting!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2003 at 12:48
I wish you the best of luck. If you are starting your casting with Lee equipment you will need it.  I always grit my teeth when a newbie starts with Lee. Casting has enough a big enough learning curve without that handicap. If your frustrations take you to the point of thinking about giving up on casting, buy an RCBS mould and life will be better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2003 at 01:08

FWIW, I would go with the 150gr pill, unless you are hunting deer that go upwards of 200#. It will have plenty momentum for pass-thru on most deer, and the added velocity will boost the heck out of the energy. That said, whichever load you find to be the most accurate is the one to use. The really great thing about the "Dirty-Thirty", is that you can just about interchange any suggested jacketed load for a cast bullet load. Their speed and projectile weight fall right in the cast parameters. Lastly, I seem to have pretty good luck with straight water-quenched wheelweights for my .30-30 in a Contender, and an H&R/NEF. Last combination load I tried (Darned accurate out of both guns) was 34gr H4831. It runs right at 1400fps from the 10" Contender. I hacven't had a chance to run it thru the 22" barrel yet. Might go on up to 36gr or so, just to see if velocity goes up.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bug.

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