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What a disappointment my JOC has been |
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: 14 February 2014 at 10:19 |
I really hate to complain and I am not one to post all
that often on here but I do enjoy reading all the posts, information, tidbits, and reviews. I have learned from a lot of other people’s mistakes who were good enough to post their troubles on here so I wouldn't have to make the same mistakes that they did. So here goes, I sold off a substantial portion of my Winchester M70 collection as well as some Brownings, a T/C Pro-Hunter package and even an old Savage 110G holdover from the early 90's. I did this to free up some room and empty and remove one of my safes and replace the pieces sold with 5 or 6 higher grade guns. Well the first 3 were Kimbers, a pair of 8400 WSM's in 270 and 300 and a Varmint 84M in 22-250. The next purchase was a beautiful Winchester Model 70 Jack O'Connor Custom Tribute purchased via Gunbroker and the JOC has been a huge disappointment. I purchased it back in December and still haven't shot it because the stock remains in Morgan Utah awaiting repair or resolution. The checkering was horrible, soft, and felt more like velvet in most places than checkering. You could run a kleenex down every inch and never leave any evidence of the tissue in the checkering. The metal butt plate overhung on both sides of the rifle butt and about a quarter inch over the toe of the stock. The barrel was not floated and paper would only make it about 6 inches or so under barrel before being stopped abruptly by wood to metal contact. The ebony forend was about 1/16 an inch higher than the walnut under the forearm and there were 2 distinct ridges/high spots in the forearm where the stock was machined or shaped. I guess I could have sent it back to the dealer but to be honest, I didn't give it a real good inspection when I was doing the FFL transfer because the counters were crowded and I feared damaging the gun before it ever made it to the field. I found this all when I got home and disassembled the gun for cleaning, called Winchester the next morning and sent the stock back. I called for an update and I am now told it may be well into the summer before the stock gets back to me, provided they can fix the flaws. I told them that there is no chance that I want a replacement stock because I paid almost the full MSRP because the wood looked as it did in the pictures on Gunbroker. So, 2500$ and nearing 2 months later I have no centerpiece for my new collection. I did get another beautiful Kimber 8400 WSM in Stainless with an AA French Walnut stock and paid half of what I did for the JOC Custom Tribute. I know The JOC is not a 5000$ Custom Shop gun but it is a very expensive rifle and I certainly had hoped for a lot more from Winchester than what I received. I really wanted the gun because I am such an avid fan of all of Mr. O'Connor's work, and have been since my youth. Had he been handed that gun from Winchester, history may have been written differently and Remington or Savage may have become "The Rifleman's Rifle". OK, off my soapbox for now and thanks for letting me rant a little. I know Winchester can make this right but I also know it won't be easy and I hope they are willing to put in the effort to make the gun look and handle as it should. By the way, the gun comes with a free "custom embroidered case from the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center" (as described in the advertising) and the case arrived with Lewiston, Idaho misspelled (Lewision) and the tags inside indicate that the case is actually made in China from material produced in China and has the BOYT name impressed in the fake leather tippet. Now I am hearing from other JOC Custom Tribute owners and there are some other sad cases of poor production with this custom tribute. I did get to hear from one yahoo who purchased the less expensive version and took exception to me printing my displeasure with the gun. He apparently was some type of brand loyalist crackpot or maybe he worked for Winchester but he certainly took exception to me publicly discussing flaws with my gun and sent several PM's on another site trying to get me to remove my posts and became quite the idiot and exposed his true character when I refused to be shushed. So there it is, and the saga continues. I'll make sure to post the end results and I certainly hope to post how happy I am with Winchester and their great customer service and that everything turned out great in the end and I have a perfect JOC Custom Tribute rifle. We shall see. Edited by Tenring |
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Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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BEAR
Administrator Joined: 07 September 2013 Location: Appalachian Mtn Status: Offline Points: 13734 |
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tough to buy a gun that is not in your hands or that of a friend. pics don't tell the entire story.
hope it works out |
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CB900F
Administrator Honor, Integrity Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Eritrea Status: Offline Points: 8857 |
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Tenring; If you paid for it by credit card, you may have some recourse through them, depends on the card I think. But, too much time may have elapsed also. In any case I'd sure let your card company know about it if you used one. 900F |
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Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Checked online and the new estimated date of repair is
the first week of May. Winchester/Browning has a nice little site where you can go and check the status of the repairs, According to the site, the buttplate has been reshaped, fitted and replaced, the irregularities removed, the forend fitted and shaped and now awaits final checkering and refinishing. This gives me confidence because at least they acknowledged the need for repairs and are attempting to do what they can to make it right. I hate having to wait almost 5 months but if it comes back the way I hope it does, it will be worth the wait. Good on Winchester for making it easy for us to track our repairs online and not having to stay on hold to wait to talk to someone. I'll keep you guys posted! |
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Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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BEAR
Administrator Joined: 07 September 2013 Location: Appalachian Mtn Status: Offline Points: 13734 |
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wish you luck. As you know the Winchester brand is now just a license to have guns that are made by the Japanese sold in this country as Winchester.
Not sure how they rechecker? Maybe they just 'refresh'. Be sure to tell us how it turns out. |
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CB900F
Administrator Honor, Integrity Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Eritrea Status: Offline Points: 8857 |
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BEAR; Has something changed? Last I knew the Winchester name was leased from Olin by FN & the manufacture of the guns remained in the U.S. at a plant in South Carolina I think. The model 70's at any rate. Olin still owns the Winchester name outright & does control the manufacture of the ammunition sold under that name. Now it's true that Browning, which is also owned by FN, makes no guns. They are all sourced throughout the world & made by whomever FN/Browning wants to have them made by. Miroku of Japan is a major Browning provider. But there are other sources. For instance, if you buy a new Browning Hi-Power pistol, it will say it's made in Portugul. 900F |
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Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Wing master
Administrator AKA StraightShooter Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7481 |
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Thats interesting 900f, I guess I would a lot rather have a Browning made in Japan by Miroku than one made in a chineese sweat shop by an 8 year old machinest. Miroku seems to do a decent job of making firearms. But when they start using the lowest bidder, it might not be so good. Wing master |
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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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RaySendero
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 29 November 2005 Location: US South Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Gosh - There are morals in this story: 1) I've read many real good reviews of the JOC tribute rifle. This is the 3rd time I've read of a JOC with really poor workmanship. I really like M70 Winchesters, but I'll never buy a JOC w/o seeing/handling it firsthand. 2) Long ago and far away, I ordered a Browning O/U that had some fine cracks in the stock. Dealer returned the gun to Browning for repairs/replacement. 5 Months latter it came back with one of the best fit/looking stocks I ever saw on that model. My patients was put to the test, but in the end was well worth the wait. |
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Ray
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CB900F
Administrator Honor, Integrity Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Eritrea Status: Offline Points: 8857 |
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Fella's; I've got a Miroku Browning T-bolt that I bought a couple of years ago for some petty good money, over $650.00 if I remember correctly. It's, of course, a left hand target/varmint in .22 magnum & one of the very few LH guns available in that caliber. Accuracy has never been it's strong point however. A good portion of that is due to the fact that there's an extremely limited supply of .22 magnum ammo even in the best of times. If you do a comparison of the .22 magnum supply against .22lr, it's got to run about 25:1 in the favor of the long rifle as far as brands & variants within a brand go. But, the trigger on the T-bolt sucked, which obviously affects accuracy also. I researched the trigger problem & found that there wasn't a whole bunch of information on it. What I did find was on the Rimfire Central site, & did help. Basically, the trigger group is plastic & sealed to prevent anybody from working on it. There's a security tape that if broken or removed, will void the warranty. Many gunsmiths will not touch one. I, however, am stupider & did. Upon opening the trigger group housing, it's easy to see that the engineering is like nothing normally seen for trigger groups. On the up side, it's easy to see how it works. Therefore, it's also pretty easy to see what needs to be changed. I wound a new spring & installed it, but haven't had a chance to go to the range & see if it's going to turn a so-so shooter into a good gun or not. Using a smaller diameter spring wire, and winding it with one less coil, gave me a trigger pull of 4.2 lbs with no creep or grittiness. It's also very consistent, varying only .2 lb from pull to pull over 6 tests. You can imagine what the trigger pull was like before. 900F |
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Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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Wing master
Administrator AKA StraightShooter Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7481 |
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If I am not mistaken, Miroku makes the Howa 1500 thats the same as the Smith&Wesson 1500 and the Weatherby Vanguard. I have a weatherby Vanguard that I bought because I heard they were decent rifles. I figured it would be good if I dropped it on a rock or let it get wet, but didnt have much expectations for it. About the second load I tried shot a 3 shot group that was all touching. I usually shoot 5 shot groups but knew I would pull at least one of the last 2 shots so I moved to another target. It will consistantly shoot 1/2 inch groups. This turned into my "go to" rifle for big game. I still don't worry if I drop it onto a rock and I have hunted in several rain and snow storms with it. It kinda grew on me. Wing master |
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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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My Jack O'Connor Model 70 Custom Tribute was due back on
the 8th of May. Another call this morning to Browning/WInchester service center yielded nothing other than "it should be done any day now". Still very disappointed. This all started last year. Really wish Kimber would have made a Jack O'Connor tribute and I would be shooting it today. |
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Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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CB900F
Administrator Honor, Integrity Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Eritrea Status: Offline Points: 8857 |
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Tenring; I don't know what to say. Your experience has been pretty lousy it seems, although, so far, FN/Winchester produces rumors that they're going to make it good by you. However, you might send them a polite note stating that given the time it's been, it's obvious that their warranty rectification department has been overwhelmed. A sympathetic tone suggesting that if quality control were improved, the warranty department might not be experiencing the defections of personnel, nervous breakdowns, and rather more serious complications that are apparantly evident. A modest suggestion that "The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves" posters in the workplace might not be producing the results desired could possibly work wonders too. 900F |
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Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
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BEAR
Administrator Joined: 07 September 2013 Location: Appalachian Mtn Status: Offline Points: 13734 |
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So diplimatic
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jsgbearpaws1
.416 Rigby Joined: 02 March 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3599 |
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Or you could send my ex-wives there to put some smack down on them?
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...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I just want my gun back, the way it should be and worth
what I paid for it. |
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Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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jsgbearpaws1
.416 Rigby Joined: 02 March 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3599 |
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I feel for you man.......Hate it when companies screw you around forever before giving you what you should have gotten from them in the first place. It's a poor business practice.
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...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Irish Bird Dog
.416 Rigby Too many Joined: 01 March 2009 Location: Midwest Status: Offline Points: 5511 |
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tuff to buy a "special anything" and have it come up way short of promises and expectations as your JOC rifle did. Wonder how it ever left the factory. Sure hope it comes back as it should be and soon. Was it a Miroko made gun? I may have missed that if you said so in an earlier post. I think Miroko has a good rep for quality workmanship. Boyt stuff is not really inexpensive so I wonder what it would cost IF made in the USA vs China as your case was made?
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Irish Bird Dog
NRA Life/Endowment 2nd Amendment Supporter |
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Russ
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 13 July 2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 430 |
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That sucks about your rifle mate... is it back yet?
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I got the rifle back last week and couldn't be more
disappointed. The metalwork was nearly perfect but everything else leaves a lot to be desired. The checkering was pitiful and the outline on the checkering is just a disgrace. I posted some pictures on another site and I'll try to post a couple on here. I'll never buy another Winchester via Gunbroker, or likely from anywhere else for that matter. I still haven't shot it out of fear that it may be just as big a lemon in the performance department as it is in the fit, finish, and workmanship. I could have just bought another Weatherby or another Kimber CLassic Select for half of what I paid and certainly would have more than what I have today. Too bad I am such an O'Connor fan or I never would have been interested in the first place. If Jack was still around he would demand that his name come off this rifle immediately.31_200500_3.jpg"> Edited by Tenring |
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Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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BEAR
Administrator Joined: 07 September 2013 Location: Appalachian Mtn Status: Offline Points: 13734 |
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As winchester was going down the last 20 years of its life, they tried to make money by selling "collectable" or "commerative" rifles. basically they were just production guns with a glued on coin or lazer carved picture. I looked at a lot of them over the years (Texas Rangers, John Wayne, etc. needless to say I was never impressed and never understood how they were sold. a few friends have them and they tell me they are worth many times what they paid for it. I don't see those guns selling at gun shows for great money. Sorry to hear of your disappointment; peddle it and move on. the Kimber Classic Select are very nice rifles at a reasonable price compared to a true Custom at $5000+. |
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