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Deer rifle

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BEAR View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 September 2017 at 08:27
Seems everyone has different 'needs' for a deer rifle.

Increasing age means I can't drag a whitetail much over 100 yards, no up hill.  So that impacts my hunt in two ways:
 must be within 100 yards of a legal truck road;
 shot must stop any deer in his tracks (breaking both front shoulders); do running 50-100 yards down hill away from road.

I've always been a heart shot guy, so I need to modify my instinct shooting.


AND now I need to shoot a bullet capable of breaking/shattering both shoulders with full penetration.  Love my superlight weight Kimber 260, but that is set up for 123 gr high velocity bullets.

????????????????????    Should I go to the:
 338 with 200 grains
 7 mag with 150gr
 8mm with 186 gr  
  30-40  with 170 grain, or
 9.3 with 286 grains.

Tomorrow at 5am, I'm leaving for 3 wks travel/hunting and will have 30 hours when I get back before leaving for a mountain hunt in NC Pennsylvania.  Just checking and all these rifles are sighted in and I have at least a box of reloaded ammo for each.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 09:15
Of the choices, I'd say the 8mm; having said that, there's a lot to be said for a good, ol' .30/06 or .308.
 
Another choice: a .30/30 has one heck of a WHOP to it, especially within your intended range.


Edited by TasunkaWitko - 27 September 2017 at 09:16
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MtElkHunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 14:25
I have had experience with all of those except the 9.3. All of them will work. I have killed over 100 deer in my hunting career and have witnessed probably 3 or 4 times that many. IMO just about any decent bullet in any of those calibers when shot thru the chest will kill very reliably, but like you said they may run a little ways before going down. For a drop right there kill I have only found 3 shots.

The first is a spine shot, break the spine and the deer goes no where. I don't like this shot because it sometimes does not kill the deer and a second shot is required.

The second is a double shoulder shot. This is very effective and will drop a deer almost all the time. The reason I say almost is I have seen a few deer shot this way stumble and stagger 50-75 yards before going down. It is rare but it does happen. The interesting thing is that every deer that has done this has been a whitetail. I have never seen a mule deer do it. I honestly think whitetails are harder to kill than mule deer. The only thing I do not like about this shot is it usually wastes a lot of meat on the front shoulders.

Lastly is the head/neck shot. If you are accurate enough a head shot is absolutely deadly. It wastes no meat and the deer does not even know what hit it. A lot of people do not like the head shot because if you miss you have a chance of the deer being wounded. I have never had a animal get away with a head shot, but I only take them when I have a very good rest and am 100% confident I can make the shot.

If I was going to do shoulder shots with any of those calibers I would make sure I had a very good constructed bullet that will not fail on the shoulder. I have have very good luck with the barnes bullets on shoulder shots. If I was picking from your list I would pick a 200 grain barnes from the 338 or a 160 barnes from the 7mm. Both have a good combination of speed and weight to punch all the way thru.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 15:18
A 160gr RN in your 260 would do what you're wanting.

Of your other choices, 9.3 would cause least blood shot, followed by 30-40.

I don't like shoulder shot with rifle, but like to take shoulder when using pistol. With pistol, it anchors them without losing, whole front half. Both 338wm and 7mag take out whole front, when shoulder blade is hit @ 100yds, I hate trimming that much bloodshot meat.

I most often take high neck shot, on close deer, but it's not a shot, to take on moving deer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 15:20
As far as bullets, the first "non-regular" bullet I would consider is the Nosler Partition ~
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 16:34
Ain't nothing in L48 going anywhere with a

286 NPT thru both shoulders from a 9.3x62.

Mine is 100% DRT on all deer and hogs so far, knock-on-wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 17:41
Good thoughts. I don't take moving shots, not even close walking shots. I've found the deer will eventually stop, and a standing shot at a longer distance is a higher kill shot for me. I'm to the point that the deer is my secondary consideration in hunting.

Wondering if the 9.3 might just blow straight thru? But it will surely break everything it encounters.

I've not considered the head shot!!!   2 years ago I hit an elk at about 120 yards, the head was the only shot I had. standing with the 9.3x62 I hit the brain, bullet took off the far side skull and 3/4 of the brain tissue was hanging out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 19:27
In my youth I shot a deer with my M94 Win .32 Spl...it broke both shoulders but the deer plowed ahead pushing with his hind legs for a pretty long ways....down hill.....so it did the job, the bullet....most likely a Win factory load of the day.. 170gr Soft point...flat tipped....maybe Bear you just need to hire a kid to drag for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 21:14
I misread your post "do running 50-100 yards down hill away from road." and thought you took shots at deer running 50-100yds downhill. I've known several hunters, who were very good at running shots, my Grandpa Sam being one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 22:57
This sounds like a good excuse to buy a new rifle.

Just remember, The .270 is magical.

'Nuff said.

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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 03:08
No new deer rifle for me! got too many now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 09:34
I'm older to and with this stuff I got going on not gonna be doing much walking or dragging. My two favorite calibers for this is #1 .338 Federal ,I have never shot a more critter stopping caliber.#2 is my .270 with a good Barnes bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MtElkHunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 14:11
I have killed quite a few animals with a head shot and really do like the shot. I have had quite a few people criticize me for using head shots saying there is to much chance to wound the animal by hitting it in the nose or jaw and it get away. I have never had that happen but then I only take close shots (less than 100 yards) and I will have a very good rest. I know my gun and exactly where it shoots at that distance and can hit a target the size of the brain (about 2") every time. Under those circumstances I think I have a less chance of wounding because you remove other variables like bullet performance. Any bullet even poorly constructed ones will destroy the brain whereas a poorly constructed one thru the shoulders may only wound.

I think it all comes down to how confident you are with your shooting abilities. If you are sure you can hit the brain it is the cleanest quickest kill you can make. I have seen head shots where the legs fold up like an accordion right to the body before the body has a chance to drop. It is really cool to watch that happen.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 14:38
Well I'll throw a wrench worth of sacrilege into it....How about a slug-gun? Sabots are more then accurate enough for gophers and ranges up to 200 yards......Less damage and carnage from hyper-velocity and the impact of the big slugs is second to only the finger of God himself.

2 pence.
...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 16:12
Ok, my bro' is advocating a slug gun. I've killed many deer with everything from a long bow to a flintlock, including many one shot kills with a 20 ga slug. But the accuracy of the best slug gun is about 1:10 of a rifle.

My other bro' has a Kimber 228 federal he swears by; I've seen lots of kills with it...about the same as a 358 out to 250 yds, somewhat better at 300. I can borrow   bro's gun.

If I was to train myself for the brain shot, any rifle would work. I'd probably pick my Kimber 260 rem (sub MOA) light accurate.

I will NOT have time to develope a new load, nor to sight-in, as season is 2 days after I return home. So what I have, I have.

If I was doing a head shot, my 44 mag Marlin would be in play; but no loads developed nor sight-in.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 20:29
.....I seem to remember it being said that the 30-30 win rd has more energy at 100yds than the .44 Mag has at the muzzle. I'd guess they are talking the 170gr factory soft point loads in 30-30 & 240gr loads for the .44 Mag.

Data from ballistics chart in wiki-pedia
30-30 170gr SP 100yds 1827 ft/lbs

.44 Mag 240gr SP Muzzle 1650 ft/lbs

Point being the good old 30-30 would be a good short range (less than 100yds) cartridge IF bullet placement is correct....everybody must have a Winchester or Marlin or Savage 30-30 caliber rifle laying around the gun room....some maybe more than one! With a good "peep/receiver" sight for good shot placement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 21:25
I'm probably the only one, who's never owned lever action, not even red ryder. I've often wondered why, but never felt the need. I've shot a couple good ones, Savage 99 and BLR, both in 308, even come close to getting 45/70 couple times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2017 at 23:07
I'm wondering how your .260 would do. I have seen this rifle and I think if it was mine it would be my go to rifle. I think it might just be enough to break at least one shoulder. Maybe both.

With the accuracy it has you could possibly go for a neck shot.

A few years ago I shot an elk with a .270 in the neck. I was hoping for a spine shot, but it was a little too far forward. It must have caught both jugular veins. Their was a fair amount of snow on the ground, and when I followed the tracks from where I shot him to where he went down (about 20 or 30 yards) the amount of blood on the snow was shocking. I never knew an elk had that much blood in it.

I guess my point is that he ran a very short distance and if I would have hit him in the spine he would dropped straight down and been dead before he hit the ground.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Go-ddaed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2017 at 08:04
I don't know that much about guns but I am curious about this new 228 Federal you mentioned?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 788Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2017 at 10:32
Of the choices you gave, I'd agree on the 8mm. I too have been a double lung/heart fan over the years, but they can cover quite a distance. My stand is 110 yards from the nearest truck access and actually had one run and drop so all I had to do was back the truck up to it and drag it into the bed! My dad, a 30-30 guy, breaks the shoulder. He's never needed a second shot. About the farthest they've ever gone based on how far I've had to drag them is about 30 yards. Double shoulders require an absolute broadside shot and those are pretty rare. The only one that dropped where hit was a little spike that took a .35 Whelen through the side. I've never tried a neck shot, but a friend swears by them. That would put them down. Good luck! 788
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