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Crows

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    Posted: 08 March 2015 at 13:15
Fella's;

Topic came up on another thread that it's not legal to kill crows in Montana. Being curious about that, I went to the state's website for that sort of thing and did several searches trying to find the regulation prohibiting killing crows. Probably wasted somewhere around half an hour to forty-five minutes in that futile attempt. Not that I doubt it's there, but frequently the search function and I don't get along.

I was particularly interested in trying to find out why the state would be interested in preventing people from getting rid of the obnoxious creatures. It can't be because any sane mind thinks there's a shortage of them! This fall I know I saw at least 200 of them on a freshly planted field of winter wheat. What possible reason could there be? I've found that they're Federally protected under a migratory bird act of 1918, but without explanation given for the protected status. In a bit of a paradox, it seems that a state can declare a season on them, allowable by the Feds. But in no case can I find the reasoning behind either the protection, or the state's being allowed to have a kill season.

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Edited by CB900F
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2015 at 14:14
Nothing to do with protecting them...
There a migratory bird so the fall under federal regulations.
In order to hunt them you HAVE to have a season, Montana never got round to making a season so we can't shoot them. Like ducks there is a set number of days we could hunt them. Some states "Season" is two days a week all year some are all the days together like seasons we are used to. Cant call on our FWP we need to call on our state legislature to vote on a season.
HOW stupid is that ?


Edited by d4570
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2015 at 17:05
Government don't need a reason, it's just because they said so. You can shoot crows under "their" rules (in short, if they're being crows, you can shoot them)

ETA: Be sure not to shoot Ravens, they're not included in depredation order.

From http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR Fish and Wildlife Service
50 CFR Part 21 [Docket No. FWSR9MB20120027; FF09M29000145FXMB1232090000] RIN 1018AY60
Migratory Bird Permits; Removal of Yellow-billed Magpie and Other Revisions to Depredation Order AGENCY: Fish and Wildlife Service, Interior. ACTION: Final rule. SUMMARY: We, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service), change the regulations governing control of depredating blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows, and magpies. The yellow-billed magpie (Pica nuttalli) is endemic to California and has suffered substantial population declines. It is a species of conservation concern. We remove the species from the depredation order. A depredation permit will be necessary to control the species. We also narrow the application of the regulation from protection of any wildlife to protection of species recognized by the Federal Government, a State, or a Tribe as an endangered, threatened, or candidate species, or a species of special concern. We add conditions for live trapping, which are new to the regulation. Finally, we refine the reporting requirement to gather data more useful in assessing actions under the order. DATES: This rule is effective December 5, 2014. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: George Allen, 7033581825. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: I. Background The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the Federal agency delegated the primary responsibility for managing migratory birds. This delegation is authorized by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) (16 U.S.C. 703 et seq.), which implements conventions with Great Britain (for Canada), Mexico, Japan, and the Russian Federation (formerly the Soviet Union). We implement the provisions of the MBTA through regulations in parts 10, 13, 20, 21, and 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Regulations pertaining to migratory bird permits are at 50 CFR 21; subpart D of part 21 contains regulations for the control of depredating birds. A depredation order allows the take of specific species of migratory birds for
specific purposes without need for a depredation permit. The depredation order for blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows, and magpies (50 CFR 21.43) allows take when individuals of an included species are found committing or about to commit depredations upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife, or when concentrated in such numbers and manner that they are a health hazard or other nuisance. We established the depredation order for blackbirds and grackles in 1949 (14 FR 2446; May 11, 1949). The regulation specified that take of birds under the order was to protect agricultural crops and ornamental or shade trees. We added cowbirds to that depredation order in 1958 (23 FR 5481; July 18, 1958). In 1972, we added magpies, crows, and horned owls to the depredation order, and we expanded the order to cover depredations on livestock or wildlife or when [the birds included in the order are] concentrated in such numbers and manner as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance (37 FR 9223; May 6, 1972). We removed horned owls from the order in 1973 (38 FR 15448; June 12, 1973), and we removed the tri-colored blackbird (Agelaius tricolor) in 1989 (54 FR 47524; November 15, 1989). From 1989 until 2010, the depredation order at 50 CFR 21.43 pertained to yellow-headed, red- winged, rusty, and Brewers blackbirds, cowbirds, all grackles, crows, and magpies. On December 8, 2008 (73 FR 74447), we proposed to make the list of species to which the depredation order applies more precise by listing each species that may be controlled under the order. We issued a final rule on December 2, 2010 (75 FR 75153), which became effective on January 3, 2011, that revised 50 CFR 21.43 to include four species of grackles; three species each of blackbirds, cowbirds, and crows; and two species of magpies, including the yellow-billed magpie. II. Changes to the Depredation Order On May 13, 2013, we published a proposed rule to further revise the depredation order (78 FR 27930), in which we proposed changes to the regulation as outlined below. Removal of the Yellow-billed Magpie The yellow-billed magpie (Pica nuttalli) is an endemic species of California. It is found primarily in the Central Valley, the southern Coast Ranges, and the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, and is an integral part of the oak savannah avifauna in California (Koenig and Reynolds, 2009).

Edited by RobertMT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2015 at 00:15
Fella's;

Robert, thank you for citing that. Although it does sound, to me, that if I feel that the crows are in such number "as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance" I can shoot 'em under the the limits of the Federal depredation order. Somehow I just know that the friendly and understanding Montana gish and fame officer will not argue with that interpretation.

And the moon is made of green cheese.

But, none of the Federal gobbledygook above answers the basic question. Yes, crows are considered a migratory bird. So what? I understand that they're included in the treaty. But why? Waterfowl I understand, but crows? No good reason for protecting them that I, or very many other people I'd think, can see.

Perhaps we should ask our Federal congress critters to see about de-listing them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2015 at 01:05
If you look at list of birds, considered and covered by treaty, it pretty much covers them all.

IE: Sparrows, Starlings, Robins and such are listed. Basically any native bird of USA, Canada, Mexico, Russia and Japan, that may migrate across any border, are included.   http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds / has a list, both by common name and Latin, of included birds. They even include "Hybrid" birds now, so if barn pigeon has crossed with rock dove(wild pigeon) it's now included.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2015 at 02:13
A little light on the crow thing. Probably a little more that most want to know!!!!!!!

@

The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 was enacted, principally, between Great Britain (for Canada) and the United States and was intended to give Federal protection to most migratory birds (read ducks and geese) in the North America but did not include crows. In 1936 the Migratory Bird and Game Mammal Treaty with Mexico was adopted to complete North American protection for migrating bird (read ducks and geese) still no crows.

The US green mentality pushed Mexico and the Treaty was further amended on March 10, 1972. This amendment finally added 32 additional families of birds including eagles, hawks, owls and the Corvidae familycwhich includes the crow species. Crows were added as Mexican farmers would bait fields and dynamited the birds that came in for the grain, killing 100s of thousand crows. This was done to protect crops and limit crop damage from the black devils. Some crows were on a low cycle, especially the fish crow; so all crows were thought in need of dynamite protection. The dynamiting was covered on network TV; and enraged animal rights people in the late '60s. This prompted the inclusion of ALL crows in the treaty.

Treaty was signed and everyone in US and Mexico when back to their normal routine. the Feds never really notified anyone and few in the US government even knew of the crow rule!

Time rolled on. Then, in the late 1970s, someone monitored the Mexicans; and saw the farmers were still dynamiting crows, no surprise. But the US raised this strongly with Mexico; who retaliated with the good argument that the US was killing crows all year round in violation of the treaty. The US then contacted the states and said that crows were protected; and states could not allow their being killed without regulations under the treaty (there were no fed regulations, therefore NO Crow Killing allowed).

So the feds made regulations on crows; 50 CFR Parts 20 and 21. You can Google it for a legalize reading--CFR=Code of Federal Regulations.

The hunting season or seasons on crows shall not exceed a total of 124 days during a calendar year; hunting shall not be permitted during the peak crow nesting period within a State; and
Crows may only be taken by firearms, bow and arrow and falconry (no dynamite).

If states make state hunting regulations that comply with this, then they can hunt crows in the state. If no crow specific state hunting regulations (such as unprotected status) then No Crow Hunting under federal law.

Many state Game agency just 'blew' the feds off and did nothing; keeping the old "unprotected status--Meaning no crow shooting under federal law in those states.

Intelligent states changed their laws to allow a 120 day season; such as the popular Friday, Saturday and Sunday hunting only during a 40 week season.

So in my state you can only hunt crows on FSS till April 1st when the nesting season begins. so I hunt crows and 'otes on FSS and fish M-Thur.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2015 at 16:29
our state in recent yrs past made a crow season....one
stipulation/rule is that all game harvested shall be
consumed. so the old saying..."eat crow" has taken on a new
meaning is WI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2015 at 23:58
Fella's;

I do know that other carrion eaters won't touch a crow carcass. Roast duck it ain't!

900F
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