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Bump-stocks ?

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BEAR View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 October 2017 at 11:51
Bump-stocks.

Lots of attention to these now.

Are these devices just a cheap way to circumvent the laws on FULL-AUTOMATIC weapons?

As 2nd Amendment advocates, should we support their being banned (just like machineguns)?



Edited by BEAR - 17 October 2017 at 11:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 15:23
WOW that is a hard one...
Like the NRA I suppose we have to support any and all guns no mater what but there a hard sale.
There no good for shooting other then they can shoot a lot.
 A cheep way to go around the auto rules yes they are.
I'm on the fence on this one but we can't let it be a chink in our armor.Dead
Rally to arms I guess???
 


Edited by d4570 - 17 October 2017 at 15:24
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 16:23
I don't think we can defend "everything".  sub-machine guns are gone.  and I don't care if they are ever made legal.

I think I BLAME the Obama administration (BATFE) for allowing them; when they were really a cheap machine gun.

just my thoughts.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 16:52
I don't own one, but I've shot a couple. How they work, is by allowing your forward hand, to apply forward pressure to set trigger off, while allowing rifle to recoil enough, to reset trigger. You can do same thing, using single point sling, hooking thumb in belt loop or just holding stock loosely against shoulder. They have a high rate of jams, mainly double feeds and stovepipes, because you're basically "limpwristing" rifle. Anyone who has had to clear overfeed in AR, (where round from mag, feeds under case, that didn't clear ejector) knows you're pretty screwed, if you don't have another readily available. Is that why vegas shooter, carried extra ARs to room?

http://www.gunowners.org/goa-puts-ryan-on-notice.htm

The way it's being presented, from GOA https://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/write-a-letter?4&engagementId=408613


"Sen. Dianne Feinstein's, S. 1916 -- and its Republican counterpart, H.R. 3999 -- would ban any gun parts or devices that "accelerate the rate of fire" of a semi-automatic firearm.
As you can already imagine, this will open a Pandora's box of gun control. 
There is no definition of a "standard rate of fire" for a semi-automatic rifle; therefore, no clear definition of an "accelerated rate of fire" for a semi-automatic rifle can be determined.
This means that anything from triggers to magazines are at risk of being defined as a device that "accelerates rate of fire" of the rifle, and therefore subjects them to the ATF's regulation or ban.
And these proposed regulations can be easily circumvented, because many semi-automatic rifles can be "bump fired" with a belt loop! 
That's why it's so important to act. It really is crunch time for the Second Amendment."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 20:41
Personally, I am against any and all anti gun laws. 

I will never own a sub machine gun, but who am I to tell you that you can't own one?

If you or anyone that isn't using a machine gun in commiting a crime wants to go out and shoot at a hillside or anything thats legal to shoot at More power to you. Have fun. 

If you want to install a bumpstock on your AR go ahead. It doesn't effect me in any way. 

I could get on a roll and go on for ever.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2017 at 02:46
I too feel we should not open any doors to more restrictions on firearms. Bad guys don't follow laws anyway.....last I heard it was unlawful to shoot and kill people....don't seem to stop the bad guys now does it?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2017 at 22:06
One thing I have been hearing is that some people are saying the BATFE needs to get on this and ban Bumpstocks. 

The thing is that the BATFE doesn't have the power to ban anything. That would require a vote by congress. 

If you think about it the BATFE doesn't need to have the power to make any laws. That would have been a total nightmare during the Obummer administration. 

I'm for leaving the gun laws as they are and possibly repealing a few of them. Like passing the hearing protection act. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2017 at 04:00
Batfe does have the power to ban bump stocks If it cones under the National firearms act.  Under Obama the BATFE ruled that THEY didn't think the bump-stock converted the firearm into a full automatic and allowed it to be sold.  

They merely have to reverse that holding.  Since we know bump-stocks are going... the BATFE   regulation is what would be much better than Congress passing a new law...with all the liberal add on amendments to ban lots of other stuff.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2017 at 11:36
Once you open the door, next president, can demand ATFE change another ruling. One's that come to mind;
Green tip bullets, since most mono bullets penetrate at least as well, ban copper bullets.
Bullets containing lead, if president can demand ATFE change rulings, why not EPA rulings?
Arm braces for AR pistols, since these are adaptive devices, that can also be used by able bodied shooters, do we want ATFE deciding who is qualified or is worthy, to use adaptive devices?
Mare's leg, AR pistols, folding stocks, contender pistols, and take down firearms, since all make firearms easier to conceal, both on person and in luggage, do we want these outlawed through rulings, by president? After all, if vegas shooter, hadn't been able to brake down ARs, it could've made them harder to get to room.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2017 at 23:44
Good point Bear. I didn't realize that. 

Robert, That's exactly right. We don't need the ATF making these decisions. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2017 at 23:48
The thing I don't understand is that 90% of Americans never heard of a bump stock before a few weeks ago. 

Some lunatic uses one to commit a crime and now a lot of people want them banned. This is the first time I have heard of a bumpstock being used in a crime. I don't think it's going to be a common thing. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2017 at 09:17
If you look at FBI stats, rifles of any type, are used for murder, in only 2% of homicides, or about half as often, as blunt objects or bare hands and about 20% as often as knifes. They don't separate rifles by type, but I believe either GOA or NRA broke that down, by looking at reporting data and I seem to remember it was around 10% or about 30 per year where EBR was used. Because of mass shooting and gang drive bys, since 2013, that share has gone up.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2017 at 20:32
as far as BumpStocks are concerned....Ignorance WAS Bliss....now the Bliss is gone replaced by panic and follow the herd mentality. The LEFT dims have come right out and said they will use this bumpstock business to push their Anti-Gun agenda...hard! Just an excuse to start the retoric IE: left word for BS.

Fellow Choir Members we are preaching to each other here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2017 at 07:45
Your right on the death rates. 

 Seems 7 years ago the CDC published a stat about the number of people annually killed by doctors in hospitals.  that was an outrageous number; and  higher than the number of Americans killed by guns!  think about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2017 at 09:37
Since four times as many people, are killed by cars, than firearms, they need to ban cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2017 at 10:27
especially Honda
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2017 at 20:46
I was thinking Prius and then Tesla, go after the left's darlings first. The idea of a stealth car, imagine how hazardous that could be to pedestrians. We must demand background checks and universal registration. We can't allow something so dangerous to move across state lines, without some kind of oversight committee studying their unchecked proliferation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:40
My opinion: If you give baby a cookie, she will want a glass of milk.
 
Translation: it won't stop with so-called bump-stocks. 
 
The shooter in Las Vegas could have just as well dropped a bomb, or Sarin, or anything. I believe that the Left and the Media (sorry, I repeat myself) are simply following the time-honoured tradition of "not letting a good crisis go to waste," and am disappointed to see the Republicans falling for such a ridiculously transparent attempt to drive a wedge into the 2nd Amendment.
 
No other civil right has ever been the subject of so much proposed infringement, when it is - in fact - among the most important civil rights of all. There is a reason that they keep trying to mess with it, and once the true purpose of the 2nd Amendment is acknowledged, that reason becomes pretty clear.


Edited by TasunkaWitko - 23 October 2017 at 15:16
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