The BaitShop Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > FireArms, et cetera > Metallic Cartridge Handloading and Bullet Casting
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bullet weight.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

This site is completely supported by donations; there are no corporate sponsors. We would be honoured if you would consider a small donation, to be used exclusively for forum expenses.



Thank you, from the BaitShop Boyz!

Bullet weight.

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bullet weight.
    Posted: 14 November 2019 at 20:36
When looking for a load for a hunting rifle I have always started with a heavy for caliber bullet and try different powders and if it doesn't seem to be working I get a box of one step lighter bullets and try them etc. 

I have no real reason for doing this, but that's what I've always done. 

How do you decide on a bullet weight? Should I try lighter bullets for smaller game? My theory has always been that a 150 grain bullet from a .308 will kill a prairie dog, but I'm not sure a 110 grain bullet will kill an elk. 

Also, in my neck of the woods shots can be and usually are kinda long. 

Thoughts?
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
d4570 View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar

Joined: 27 January 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 22:22
SPEED KILLS !  In my mind.
You do know a 80 gr 6mm will kill an elk, if shot right.
A heaver bullet can give you a little more wiggle room sometimes.
The construction can be as important as the weight.
We are sold on Barnes copper bullets for most calibers.
That said a Speer soft point in the 7 mm rem cant be beat.?
Performance depends on shooting it at the right speed, what ever that bullet works best at.
A bullet meant for a 30/06 does not work well in a 30 30.
No help am I? Sorry.
Try and see I say.
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
Back to Top
RaySendero View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
.30/06 SpringField
Avatar

Joined: 29 November 2005
Location: US South
Status: Offline
Points: 452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 08:51
Originally posted by Wing master Wing master wrote:

When looking for a load for a hunting rifle I have always started with a heavy for caliber bullet .....
Thoughts?
 
 
Yep! Me, too.
Ray
Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 20:55
D,

That's the reason I asked. Thanks for the input. The guy that built my Swede has said the same thing several times. (speed kills). I think I am going to get a box of light bullets to try in a gun or two and see if I can get good accuracy with them. If so, I might try them on antelope next year. 

Thanks again. 
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 20:57
Ray, 

what is the reason for you using heavy bullets? 

I guess for me, shots around here can be pretty long and the wind blows almost all the time. 

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
RaySendero View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
.30/06 SpringField
Avatar

Joined: 29 November 2005
Location: US South
Status: Offline
Points: 452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2019 at 08:53
In general:
Short range, The lower velocity and higher SD of heavier bullet holds it together better.
Longer range, better BC and more retained energy with less wind drift.


Edited by RaySendero - 16 November 2019 at 09:02
Ray
Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2019 at 14:48
Thanks Ray. 

The long range and wind was kinda my thinking as well. But, I really never thought too much about lighter bullets until recently. 

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
RaySendero View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
.30/06 SpringField
Avatar

Joined: 29 November 2005
Location: US South
Status: Offline
Points: 452
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2019 at 15:47
Other than a reduced load for my wife's 30-06,
I never had any use for light-for-caliber bullets.
Ray
Back to Top
d4570 View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar

Joined: 27 January 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2019 at 16:52
I did some calculations:

0.487 100 gr  6mm 3000 fps  1998 foot pounds,1779/100,1087/500

0.331 80 gr TTS  6mm 3650 fps  2302 foot pounds,1954/100,1091/500

On my 6mm , till I get over 500 yards there is better energy with my 80 gr bullets vs a 100 gr.

This is in general, no way for me to check other then on the net. 
 

My 8mm on the other hand WOW I'm liking what I see.

0.576 210 gr tts 8mm 3100 fps  
4481 foot pounds,4066/100,2710/500 OuchClap
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
Back to Top
BEAR View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 07 September 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 9810
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2019 at 09:02
It is very difficult to design/make a good bullet for high velocity.  Good meaning expands well, holds together in flesh at any range.  BUT, thanks to Roy Weatherby, hunters love high velocity.  The ad folks immediately started to write high energy.  Why?  Because energy is calculated by velocity squared so a 20 % increse in velocity, means a 44% increse in in energy.  So was born, magnumitis.
Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2019 at 00:31
D, 

What difference in the drop at 500 yards between the 100 and 80 grain 6mm?

I'm pretty sure I will never take a shot at a game animal at 500 yards but I might at a prairie dog. 

Good point Bear. I guess it depends on the construction of the bullet but I think it would be hard to make a bullet that would reliably expand at 3200 fps and still be reliable at 1000 fps. 

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
jsgbearpaws1 View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2019 at 05:45
Biggest you can shoot accurately without out running your twist. Bullets have a sweet spot in velocity for expansion. Plan that into the range you plan to shoot at for near and far. A fast expanding bullet up close with a fast magnum absolutely blows apart in close and a slow CXP will fail at extreme range when there is no longer enough speed to make it expand. Know your ranges and pick your projectile to fill the need. Solids are just about the only ones that are consistent because...they aren't supposed to do anything but plunge deep. I doubt you will have a need for them. I would rather figure my holds with a heavier bullet that will expand correctly at the ranges I require then save myself a few inches of drop, but lose meat or a game animal from an inappropriate loading.
...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
Back to Top
BEAR View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 07 September 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 9810
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2019 at 07:15

 

There have been lots of attempts at designing a bullet that works at high velocity both close and far.  

 

The H-mantek bullet was designed by  RWS (Rhinelandic-Westphalian Explosives Aktiengesellschaft), a German ammunition company in 1932.  at close range or in small critters the front half of the bullet expands rapidly; but at close range on bigger animals a part of the bullet penetrates deeply (even after the forward portion is gone).  At long range where the velocity has dissipated, the forward thin jacketed bullet expands well and the full bullet penetrates.

These bullets are still made and sold today, and are very popular in Europe where one rifle may be used on big or small stuff and at close and long range.

 

If that sounds familiar, Nosler copied the design, now called Partition.  It differs slightly in the wall that separates the forward and rear sections.  Nosler made this design after WW-2 when the 270 was the 'hotrod' rifle.

 

Both designs are a compromise:  on big game at close range most of the bullet shatters without penetrating deep, only a small weight bullet is left to act as a FMJ.  so the deep penetration is very limited as it is a small weight with a large diameter.  So a 30 caliber ends up penetration less than a 60 grain 223.  I have shot the H mantel in 8x57 on bears and it performed ok.  It frags less than the partition, IMO.

 


Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2019 at 02:16
Interesting. The whole time I was reading this I was thinking "Partition"

Back in the early 90's I shot a mule deer with a partition. I hit it in the front shoulder. I don't remember the details, but I do remember it ruined A LOT of meat. 

I have always been under the impression that a slower heavier bullet has less drop at longer range. Kinda the wiffel ball vs. baseball theory. It would be easy enough to check out with a ballistics calculator and a reloading manual. 

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.