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AI improved cartridges???/

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BEAR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2017 at 01:16
Nice to see you posting Dan.

What AI cartridges do you have?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2017 at 11:38
Most the "AI" improved loads boost the speed a LOT.
Except the 6mm rem the change is smaller then the other "Varmint" rounds.
To get a big jump I need to go with a 6mm/06, which I am going to do when I "Toast" the barrel I have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2020 at 13:17
Dang here is an old post that could be reignited.
Any Information on my 8 MM rem mag?
It looks like an AI improved 375 H&H necked down now.
Taper taken out It doesn't have a 40* shoulder I don't think but to head spaces off the belt anyway right?
To get much improvement I would have to go with 8 MM RUM maybe.
But that's more then just a reaming. I think that's a 404 Jeffrey case,
No Belt.
Even with that it's around a 100 fps increase, and way more powder.
 I would guess more recoil too.But a 220 gr bullet going 3200 fps would be cool too. Right now Mine is around 3100.
I got a new Bayonet( other one stopped working for what ever reason) for the speedometer so Next time I'm out I'll find out for sure. The 200's should be around 3200...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2020 at 13:33
The base of the RUM is exactly the same as the base of you 8 rem mag.  easy ream job.  But only 100 fps increse?????????

My 416 case is eating me out of powder.
The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MapleHill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2020 at 13:42
D, when I was at Hart barrel talking to Jim and Jerry Hart I almost had them make my rifle a 260AI or 7-08AI. But after alot of research and talking to the guys there I would only gain 50fps on the outside. That is not enough gain to outweight the pain of fireforming brass. The AI lessen the body taper and increase the shoulder angle. So in and of that, you can run into issues feeding from the magazine to the chamber. I discussed this at lengths with the Hart crew as well. One of the main reasons many of the cartridges have the 20ish* shoulder and body taper is to feed and extract reliable in a number of different action designs, i.e. military firearms. Now for us in the hunting world it comes in to play, if not to the level of life and death, at least not our death, but it is a factor. The sharp angle of the shoulder make the transfer from magazine to chamber a harder push from the bolt handle. From what I've read you gain a significant (noticeable in performance) increase in 22/250, 257Rob and 280 most notably. The first 2 are easy to figure, they are heavily tapered cases, the 280 is not as tapered, but the sharper shoulder add increase in usable powder capacity. I write this without a single AI chambered rifle in my safe. The RUMs I do have experience with. I had (HAD) a 7mm and 338 RUM. They both shot well and recoil was not as fierce as I would have thought. They were both top of the line Rem 700 XCRs.  With the 7mm when you got towards the top loads you had to add a lot of powder to see even a little increase in velocity. IIRC, a 1 or 2gr increase in powder would not change my velocity readings at all, it seemed like you needed to get towards 5gr to see it jump and then, not much. The 338 was better, IMHO the 338RUM had a real use in North American big game hunting. The 7mm didn't give you much practical advantage over the 7RM or 7WM as you can wring out a good performing load with 24" barrels out of either the Rem mag or Weatherby. I refuse to carry any more weight than I have to while hunting so I have swore off 26" barrels thus the RUMs are gone. I took the 7mm to a horseback trip to Idaho...never again. I've never been able to see an animal die and deader than dead when hit with a 3000fps 7mm or a 3200fps 7mm. The difference of 200fps is on me, not the rifle. The 8mmMag is very close to 338 RUM performance...don't change it, you'll be burning more powder for 50-75fps. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 09:08
Maple  +  1.
The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 09:15
Originally posted by BEAR BEAR wrote:

The base of the RUM is exactly the same as the base of you 8 rem mag.  easy ream job.  But only 100 fps increse?????????

My 416 case is eating me out of powder.
8 mm Rem mag 375 h&h case capacity is a meager 99 gr h2o

Bear I think the "RUM" cases are from a 404 not the 375 h&h.
110.2 gr h2o

Still little difference.
On the other hand,
An 8mm Weatherby Mag would be on a 378 case, that one could be fun...
133 gr H2O

ClapBig smile


Edited by d4570 - 01 May 2020 at 09:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 09:32
Sorry Bear I misread your post.
 You said Base is the same , it is, I read it as Based.
I stand corrected.
I did check at one point and found an 8 mm RUM, from a 8 mm Rem Mag is just a ream job.
BUT It came with 220 brass and I now have 420 to costly to change now for 100 FPS.
 I do wish it had a 26" barrel.Ouch


Edited by d4570 - 01 May 2020 at 09:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 09:46
Yep, 404 all right.  fits you rifle perfectly.  same head diameter; one reamer and a few turns...bingo.

The only BIG 8mm I played with was the 8x68S which with a 200 grain bullet gave just 3000fps.  it was a M-S with double set triggers, beautiful rifle.  Cartridge designed in 1930  germany.

my double rifle is a measly  8x57 JRS.

I've got some biggies, 300 RUM, 416, couple of Weatherbys.  And I've shot 470, 460 Weatherby (the mother of everything big).  For the massive amount of powder they eat, they seldom give more than 150-250 fps more.  and that little bit is eated up in the firsst 50-70 yards.  So it really means you have the same killing power for and extra 50-70 yards.  I can crawl that far.

Big cartridges are only an advantage IF they shoot a heavier bullet.


Edited by BEAR - 01 May 2020 at 09:48
The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 12:03
Originally posted by BEAR BEAR wrote:

Big cartridges are only an advantage IF they shoot a heavier bullet.
I agree, but would add bigger both diameter and heavier bullet!
 
PS: what's with the larger print?
Ray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 12:44
I'm really hard of hearing So I have to talk loud.
 Sorry, just turn the volume down when I'm talking.Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 13:51
Actually, my eyes are bad.  prefer all caps, extra large.
The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MapleHill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 14:44
Originally posted by BEAR BEAR wrote:

Big cartridges are only an advantage IF they shoot a heavier bullet.

Bear +1!! D and I have gone back and forth on this many times. I like the energy you get with the heavy(er) bullets. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2020 at 15:12
Most folks buy heavy magnums and then load light bullet to reduce recoil.

Funny thing, 223 guys want to adopt heavier bullts too get some energy????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windywales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2020 at 14:22
I think "improved" is way too generic a moniker.  I was told I could go to 25-35AI or Tomcat when I got my shot-out 22 Hipower reamed out and rechambered to 25-35, and get close to a 257 Roberts in performance.  Well, the performance I was interested in didn't include more muzzle blast noise and recoil--and I already had a 257 Roberts.  When I built the Roberts, I was told I could make it a 25-06 if I wanted to.  I didn't want to!  If "improved" means more noise, more recoil, more speed, and more energy it makes it a cartridge I could have had and didn't want, so it's not "improved" to me.  Maybe the 32 Win Special is an "improved" 32-40; I've never had one (and I've had several, I do like that cartridge) that could match the AVERAGE 32-40 for accuracy.  Accuracy-wise, it's not "improved".  I'm not knocking you recoil junkies; I used to be one, and I bought rifles in calibers that "outperformed" many of the above--but my idea of a sweet rifle is one that behaves itself while doing the job it was designed for really well. windy

sonny, whar I growed up, "magnum" wuz anuther wurd fer "lousy hunter"
Whar i growed up "magnum" wuz anuther wurd fer "lousy hunter"
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