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6.5 Grendel ,

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Tikkabuck View Drop Down
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**Robert E. Lee IV **

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    Posted: 21 May 2017 at 13:06
Any thought's ,for deer ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 15:14
deer....get 'em in the cross-hair and boom!
bet the 6.5 Grendel would work just fine depending on
the bullet chosen and hunting terrain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 16:15
My hunting partner's friend shot antelope, with one couple years ago. Easy 150yds broadside, 123gr SST bullet, Hornady's recommended hunting bullet for Grendel, stopped @on side rib and only plastic tip penetrated rib. Jim anchored it with 7mag @400yds, before it crossed into private land. Shot would've be kill shot, but with very long tracking and recovery job. I would want to use tougher bullet, considering how slow bullet started out and fragile antelope are, I expected better performance.

I certainly would want tougher bullet, for increased speed of 260 or 6.5 swede.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 02:49
Like many of today's cartridges, the 6.5 Grendel was
designed for the AR, and has significant limitations.
There are significantly better 6.5 cartridges for
deer.

Having said that with proper bullet placement within
100 or so yards it would be fine.

It would be a good starter rifle (child) or for
someone that is recoil shy. Because of it parentage
(AR), it can be packaged in a small light rifle.

Robert, I use the Hornady 123gr SST bullet in my 6.5-
08. Last years antelope, at 332 yds, was a hit/flop!
Fully exited. Antelope as you said are fragile and
easy to kill if hit properly. But they like 300 yards
from anything, So I chose the 123 SST.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 07:09
I think if I was going to hunt with a short action 6.5 I
would go with a 260 Rem (6.5-08) or a 6.5 Creedmore. A
little faster.

But, that's coming from the guy that's building a 6.5x55
instead of a 6.5-06.

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I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 09:44

Sooner or later I'm going to do a 6mm 06


D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:37
lot of extra powder in a 6mm-06! should have a 28"
barrel!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 02:33
I have been using the SST's for a long time, those and Gamekings,always perform outstanding . In my Grandkids 7-08 I have been using a Barnes bullet because they seem to do a wee bit better for the reduced loads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 02:49
I've killed about 10 whitetails with the 129 gr 6.5
bullets. The SST 129 was accurate, but failed to
fully penetrate. All one shot kill, but no exit hole.
Longest run after hit was just 25 yards.

But where I hunt in Pennsylvania, New York, Virginia
the woods are thick, and I prefer an exit hole should
tracking be necessary. So I shifted my deer hunting
to Hornady SP 129 gr. Killed two deer with this, full
penetration.

The SST opens fast and destroys everything in a large
pocket (heart lungs.

I'd think in a small case like the Grendel, a SST
would do most for the energy. Again the limited
powder would seem to shout, light bullet.   123gr SST.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 04:19
Tim had done quite a bit of research, before choosing 123gr SST, for Antelope, in theory it should've been good choice. I was there, on different knob, when he took the shot, broadside at aprox 150-200yds. He hit the rib, right behind the shoulder, buck headed for private land, Jim shot him, at fence 400yds or so away, his only shot was a steep quartering shot, entered right ham, exited left brisket, bang flop, 160gr AB in 7mag.

When I skinned it for Tim, they wanted me to call whose it was, 6.5 SST was mushroomed against rib, rib had 1/4" or less pinhole from plastic tip, which was stuck in rib meat on off side. 7mag had took a big piece of ham, all the guts, part of liver, lungs and heart before exiting. I had to call, Tim had a kill shot and Jim finished it for him, how long it would've went before drowning, is open for debate.

I've had bullets blow up, from too high of velocity, on a close shot, this was far from that, it just didn't have enough gas, to bust through rib. Tim's 6.5 had 24" barrel, so it was getting all he could, out of round. My kids have shot fair number of deer with 243 and all have had better results, even bad hits, have punched through.

Since thread was about effectiveness of 6.5 Grendel, as a hunting round, I would consider it barely enough, under close to ideal situations. I also have 6x45 and 300BLK, I also consider them minimal for hunting, though many successfully use them. I have AR in 7.62x39, with 123-150gr soft points, basically matching 30/30 performance, I consider it a better choice, if I had to use AR for hunting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 06:07
Was that "the off side rib" that stopped the SST?

Last years antelope, killed with the 123 SS had one
broken rib at point of entry. then it passed thru
heart lungs, and then took out two off-side ribs on
exit. I have assumed the bullet tumbled inside the
'lope and was keyholing to take out 2 offside ribs.
The bullet may have fraged into two parts and then
taken off the back side ribs. exit hole was large
2+".

This is much different than the 129SST that I used on
whitetails, no exit. I attribute than no exit due to
the larger size of the average whitetail compared to a
'lope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 07:08
This Creedmoor I have been doing some reading on it to, I looked at the bullets,at the shop today, that's not a .308 case what in the world is it? Kind of funny looking but bigger than the Grendel that had.

Here's why I'm asking all these crazy questions guy's, I have a port they put in me when I had my surgery, it's where they give me my chemo treatment's ,and of course when I woke up, they put it right where my rifles come up and the catheter run is in the rest of the way before it dives into wherever it winds up. I cant's shoot my deer rifles well at all even the downloaded 7mm08 loads I have for the grandkids.

I was really thinking about using the .223 ,but I'm just not really wanting to put a .22 cal. into a deer, if ya know what I mean. And no I can't shoot left handed at all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 08:44
Tikka, some thoughts.

The Creedmore is based upon an obsolete round, the 30
T/C. The 30T/C is a 2007 introduced cartridge for
Thompson Centers bolt action rifle. It was to dulicat
a 308. dah who would have thought we needed and
oddball case to duplicate the performance of the
308!!! I guess that is why T/C sold out to Remington.

Along came Hornady wanting to get into the ammo
marked. Tough if you just sell what dozens of other
high volume manufactures make in production, cheaply.
So INVENT a new proprietary round, put your name on
it get one gun company to product it, and let it go
SAMMI. Then thru advertising contract in
magazines...hype the ceiling out of the virtue of this
un-needed round.   

Since the big companies will not get into so small and
likely dead cartridge, Hornady enjoyed sales and
PROFIT. The case was designed to fit a modified AR.
You know AR guys will buy anything. LOL

The 308 necked down to 6.5 is a 260 Remington, great
round lots of brass, easy to load.

The 260 Rem holds 53.5grs of water where the Creedmoor
holds 52.3. That is +1.3 grs more for the .260 Rem..
More powder means more velocity. Both are loaded to
the same 60,191 PSI. All things being equal, same
powder, same bullet, same barrel length makes the .260
Rem. the superior cartridge.

Some people think the longer neck on the Creedmore
means better bullet holding. The .2453 neck on the
260 R seems fine in benchrest contests.

So the Creedmore is slightly shorter, and I guess if I
was trying to make an AR into something bigger, I'd go
with the creedmore; otherwise the 260 Remington would
be my choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 08:46
Tika, got carried away.

But you know, you could have that "port" easily moved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 09:14
Ya I know lots of people do and then get hammered for surgery again when it goes back in if needed. I'll be using it right up till deer season. Thanks for the info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 11:10
Originally posted by BEAR BEAR wrote:

Was that "the off side rib" that stopped the SST? (clip)
.


No, it was the onside rib, only the plastic tip, penetrated rib bone, clean hole less than 1/4" in diameter, plastic tip must have went through lung and stuck in off side chest wall. 7mag and gone through, end to end, so it was hard to see, what damage plastic tip did, but buck wasn't slowed down much.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 11:35
I would look into either 6mm XC, 6mm Dasher or 6mm BR, basically shortened 243, using 22-250 or shorter case. 1:10 twist will let you shoot 85-100gr bullets, 1:8 will shoot the 105VLDs. By going with heavier barrel, they can be shoot free recoil, lots of guys use them for long range bench or target.

I've used 6mmX, 243 reamer stopped short, leaving 20 degree shoulder and using either 22-250 brass or cut down 308 cases. Tubbs next step, 6mmXC was to improve shoulder to 30 degrees and shorten it slightly more. Either has about 7 grains less capacity, than 243.

6mmBR and 6mmBR improved/Dasher have about 5-9 grains, less than 6mmXC and 6mmBR Norma is offered in fairly large number of varmint/target rifles. I would avoid turn-neck chamber, unless you want the extra work reloading.

Another option, is to switch to contender pistol and not worry about your port.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 16:14
Tikka,

How long are your shots? The reason I ask is if i'm not
mistaken you hunt in pretty heavily wooded country?

Would a .375 or maybe .41 or even .45 Colt be an option?

Or maybe like Robert said a contender might also be an
option.

Wing master
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tikkabuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:04
Don't think I'll be doing much woods hunting this year ,looks like open fields. Longest shot could be 300 or so yards. Talked to my smith today he suggested putting the good pad,and a muzzle break on my 700 .308. That could be a way to go as well. Also guy at the gun shop was telling me about these shooting shirts some of his duck hunting buddies wear. You can add pads to the shoulder of the shirt. I must live in the dark. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:52
Here's a good article comparing brakes, be sure to read article on comparison of muzzle blast too. I have both the JP recoil eliminator (tank style) and JP large Comp. Large comp is nearly as effective at reducing recoil, but allows more muzzle rise, with tank style, off bipod muzzle moves very little. There are a couple available, that are more effective reducing recoil, but they angle blast back more at shooter, instead of to the side. All effective brakes are loud, wear e-plugs while hunting and plugs and muffs at bench.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/07/13/308-muzzle-brake/

PAST recoil pad over port, would be good protection.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002531259/past-super-mag-p lus-recoil-pad-shield-ambidextrous
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